Coollights LED

Hi Richard:

Thanks for the detailed reply. I am disappointed that we are looking at at least another month to order your LEDs but I do understand about dealing with suppliers. I have two or three other people who are also interested in at least one of the 5600k floods. Please keep us up to date on how the shipment dates are looking for January as we move closer to them.

THought you might find it interesting that we already had to send back one of the Lishua 500s to PrompterPeople when four rows of the LEDs burned out. They did repair under warranty which was good but it was disappointing to have one go down after only using it for 3-4 months. Hopefully your lights will be more reliable.

What about the dual 55 watt Biax fixtures, when will those be available?

Thanks!

Dan
 
capitanfracassa said:
That light coming out is very exciting.

but I understand you are hitting CRI limitations with 5600K. And I wonder.

If instead of using all 5600K LEDs you would used a checkered grid of 3200 and 8000 leds, you'll get pretty much the same output, the same color temperature, and almost certainly a better CRI.

If you mix 8000 & 3200K 1:1 ratio the mixed light should get about 5050K. A slightly higher percentage of 8000K would get you to the desired 5600. In fact, since 8000K is stronger, you could up the percentage to calibrate at 6500K, which is a good daylight Color temperature as well and you'd have more output.

Wouldn't that work?
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I am sure that Richard will reply to this but I don't think that light color temps works like butter in a cookie recipe, it is not that constant and stable. Don't forget that all three color temps have differing CRIs and that light travels in different wavelengths depending on a variety of factors. A mixed LED sounds as if it would look pretty bizarre as far as color temp and stability. Someone would have already done this by now if it was viable.

Best,

Dan
 
puredrifting said:
Please keep us up to date on how the shipment dates are looking for January as we move closer to them.
Click to expand...

Will do.

puredrifting said:
THought you might find it interesting that we already had to send back one of the Lishua 500s to PrompterPeople when four rows of the LEDs burned out. They did repair under warranty which was good but it was disappointing to have one go down after only using it for 3-4 months. Hopefully your lights will be more reliable.
Click to expand...

LEDs are strung together in series with some kind of current limiting--usually just a resistor. What this means is that if one LED in the series goes out, usually the entire series does. The Lishuai 500 had bigger series strings than most of these type fixtures. Ours uses 3 LEDs in each string and thus the maximum that would go out at once would be 3. They're easy to replace and we will have a one year warranty. I expect our panels to be pretty reliable though.

puredrifting said:
What about the dual 55 watt Biax fixtures, when will those be available?
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We basically ship everything we have ready after a production cycle in one sea container. The portable flos will be available (again finally!) in the same time frame as the LED 600s. Hopefully January. Studio non-dimmable 2x55s, dimmable 4x55s and 6x55's are available now and in stock.
 
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capitanfracassa said:
That light coming out is very exciting.

but I understand you are hitting CRI limitations with 5600K. And I wonder.

If instead of using all 5600K LEDs you would used a checkered grid of 3200 and 8000 leds, you'll get pretty much the same output, the same color temperature, and almost certainly a better CRI.

If you mix 8000 & 3200K 1:1 ratio the mixed light should get about 5050K. A slightly higher percentage of 8000K would get you to the desired 5600. In fact, since 8000K is stronger, you could up the percentage to calibrate at 6500K, which is a good daylight Color temperature as well and you'd have more output.

Wouldn't that work?
Click to expand...

I think that some of these kinds of mixtures have promise but it will take some more experimentation. Part of the issue with LEDs not mixing well with other light sources and CRI is that they aren't really full spectrum. For some reason, the 3200K and 8000K LEDs come closer to full spectrum (and therefore have better CRIs as well) but are still not quite there. You can get a CRI of 85 though with 3200K or 8000K without breaking the bank. Full spectrum would best be simulated with RGB LEDs. An RGB LED fixture should therefore then play well with real daylight, real tungsten as well as other simulated tungsten or daylight sources.

We've pretty much got our other sources such as metal halide or fluorescent (those types measured with correlated color temperature or CCT) to a good full spectrum point that they mix well with each other (and with real CT type sources like tungsten and real daylight) and people are doing that every day now. Lots of people tell me they love the results with CDMs and flos together particularly with daylight.

Even with a mediocre CRI, the 5600K versions will work great in controlled situations where they are the only light source and you can white balance to them. As I always say, these panels have their place, just don't try to make them do things they aren't meant for. Use them in situations that really cry out for a battery operated LED panel.

In order to get LEDs there, it will take some full spectrum simulation as well. An RGB panel would probably have the most promise. But, with all these 'mix' panels, you will have the issue of multiple color shadows up close. Backing away from the fixture will eliminate the problem so you wouldn't be able to use these types of fixtures in close proximity.

So, I don't know specifically whether a mixture of 3200K and 8000K would do the trick, but it might. Don't forget though, you also have the education problems involved with marketing such panels. When I was first designing these panels and soliciting feedback here, I put forth the idea of a mixed 3200K and 5600K panel. I thought it was a great idea and you could dial in the mix. Most didn't take to the idea. So you see, it may be a great idea but getting people to accept it can take time.
 
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puredrifting said:
A mixed LED sounds as if it would look pretty bizarre as far as color temp and stability. Someone would have already done this by now if it was viable.

Best,

Dan
Click to expand...

It might work and it might not. Like I said in response to the question, getting people to accept it, even if it does work could be challenging. The RGB type fixture, like the Kelvin Tile or the Zylight will work best for simulating full spectrum but they have their drawbacks in multiple color shadows and also their output is rather mediocre due to the RGB chips and inability to put out as much light as a dedicated, one color temp chip.
 
If you wanted to compare it to a fluorescent I would say its closer to a 255. In shear output and economy of output, you can't beat a flo and won't be able to for a while. LEDs fixtures such as this one are for special uses until the dollars per lumen are more equal to what you can pay today for fluorescents. For instance, it would be so much easier to use the LED panel in an untethered shoot on a city street / sidewalk. And of course, shooting in the car would be easier too. No need for an inverter and all the other stuff.
 
Cool Lights said:
If you wanted to compare it to a fluorescent I would say its closer to a 255. In shear output and economy of output, you can't beat a flo and won't be able to for a while. LEDs fixtures such as this one are for special uses until the dollars per lumen are more equal to what you can pay today for fluorescents. For instance, it would be so much easier to use the LED panel in an untethered shoot on a city street / sidewalk. And of course, shooting in the car would be easier too. No need for an inverter and all the other stuff.
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Gotcha. Thanks!
 
Cool Lights said:
Another possible future configuration some should open their minds too would be an 8000K flood and spot version. Don't turn your nose up at it! Those 8000K 5mm leds are not only more efficiently brighter but higher CRI too. And, when you're in those odd situations like the desert at night, and that's your only light, 8000K with its extra lumen output will not be noticeable as long as you custom white balance to it. White will look white and not blue in other words (unless you try to balance at 5600K). We didn't produce an 8000K panel yet (other than for my testing purposes--I like it better than 5600K to tell the truth) because I think you aren't ready to hear this yet, but I'll continue to educate on the subject and see if we can get some interest in that version. 8000K only becomes an issue when you're trying to mix with other lights. If you use these panels where they really make sense, in isolated or controlled situations or where its inconvenient to have power, its not a big deal.
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Richard, this sounds interesting. I'm just curious but since you are building a dimmer into the fixture, is it possible to to dim the lights to the point where they would be 5600K in temp? If so, what would the output of the light be at that point? It would be great to get the increased punch of the 8000K lights for certain situations but also be able use them at 5600K if the output wasn't cut too drastically. I know the color temp usually starts changing around the 50-60% dim level but if the 8000K lights are significantly brighter than the 5600K lights, then maybe it's a wash?

PS: Happy Holidays wherever you and your family may be...

//Leo
 
Hi Leo, Happy Holidays to you and yours too. Our family is in China (like normal) but its still a Happy Holiday for us! Its already Christmas morning here in China and they increasingly celebrate it these days.

Yes at some point it would be 5600K when you're mixing, but, how will you know? It would be kind of like flying by the seat of your pants and adjusting till you think it looks right. Otherwise, we have to put some expensive (and delicate) microprocessor circuitry, software and human interface stuff in there to let you dial in whatever color temperature. That's the only way to be 100% sure you're even close. Otherwise you have to create a manual feedback loop of sorts where you adjust the two dimmers, use a color temperature meter (and a good one too that will work with LEDs--I'm not sure they exist really) to see the results and keep adjusting till its what you want.

I'm sure at some point we will do something like that because the RGB mixture fixtures are probably the future of studio lighting--but the future is still a ways off.
 
Getting closer. Here's some pictures I took today of one of the units that rolled off the line. First picture shows the back of the unit. Putting a battery plate (V or AB) is as simple as removing the battery mount access door, connecting the keyed molex connector to the battery plate, attaching with 4 screws and you're ready.

LED600BackNoBatCm.jpg


And the top of the fixture with the carry handle and spring loaded accessory locks that hold the removable barndoors in place.

LEDFixtureTopCm.jpg


Finally, a view of the bottom with the stand adapter and dimmer...

LED600BottomCm.jpg


I'll try to post a picture of the unit with a V or AB mount on the back.
 
Richard:

This is torture, I want a pair of these so badly. When can we buy these if we are in the U.S. again? Have any dates shifted again or are we still looking at the end of January?

Dan
 
Everybody's suffering including me. Its nice to see it all coming together but it took so long to get here! Yes its looking like end of January.

Battery Plate pictures.

Each battery plate comes with two plates--a bottom one that attaches to our fixture then the upper plate with the battery adapter. First pictures shows a V Mount bottom plate attached to the fixture and the keyed molex connector sticking up ready to attach to the battery adapter.

VMountPlateAndWireCm.jpg


The we attach the top V Mount adapter plate to that.

VMountPlateOnBackCm.jpg


Here's the AB Mount version.

ABMountPlateOnBackCm.jpg


Lastly, you can see an AB Mount battery on the back of the unit here.

ABBattery3ACm.jpg
 
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Since this unit has a 4-pin XLR connector for external power, does anyone know of (or could Richard create) a 4-pin XLR to Tekkeon MyPowerAll battery. I just love those Tekkeon's but have yet to find a 4-pin XLR adapter. I dare say a Tekkeon could power one of these for a couple of hours.

Ned Soltz
 
Hi Ned,

Can you post a picture of the other end (not the XLR) of the cable? Or do you know what type of connector it is? Maybe we can figure it out.
 
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