Cool Lights: BEWARE

gabrielflorit

gabrielflorit

Well-known member
I read great reviews of Cool Lights fixtures, and was even more impressed by the fact that Richard (the owner) took time to answer all my pre-purchase questions, and usually replying within the hour. He also frequents these boards quite a bit and gives us in-depth posts about his lights and how he built them.

After all this research I bought 2 CL-MF0150s (they draw 150W but output the equivalent of a 650W fresnel), 2 CL-LS4 stands, and 1 CL-CCL2 carrying case.

My first impressions: beefy stands, love the air-spring action. Great soft case, looks like some thought went into laying out the compartments in order to hold stands and fixtures.

BUT.

1) The first time I took the case from my apartment to my truck the one and only handle came off. I can't reattach it because the screws are covered by the inside liner - the only way to get to them is by cutting a hole in the liner. I contacted Richard and he very promptly told me of a thousand pieces he'd send me to make the case sturdier. I'm very impressed by the customer service - if only more companies were like that. All this from a two-person company! Excellent.

Still, having no handle on a case is a major nuisance. Taking it anywhere means hugging it with both hands. Not fun. I eagerly await the mailed pieces.

2) Yesterday I used the lights for the second time - on location for a shoot. Within the hour one of the 650s failed. As I type I'm trying to figure out what part of the light died - it's not the bulb, so either the ballast or the actual fixture. Either way, I was extremely disappointed and very glad I rented the Arri kit just in case. Having a light fail on the first day you use it is - well, as bad as it gets.

3) I lost a rubber stopper on one of the stands. Not a big deal at all, but still a nuisance after only one day of use. Another stand lost a plastic piece that covers the screw where the fixture goes on. Not a big deal either, but again, after only one day of use....

4) Both ballasts have very flimsy AC plugs. If you simply pull on the cord (like anyone would) the ballast plug comes out almost all the way! Very dangerous.


In conclusion: these lights are cheap, but... while I really appreciate Richard's prompt customer service, it does not make up for a serious lack of QA. I will stick with Arri from now on.

Moral of the story: buying cheap can be expensive.
 
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That sucks. I have both the CMD 150 and Arri and while the Cool Lights isn't quite as well built, I found it to be a great light. How did it "failed" on you? First couple of times I used it the light wouldn't turn on again after I turned it off, then I realized that it's not a hot restrike bulb and takes a few minutes to start again. That's the only annoying feature, but this light has to Arri beat cold when it comes to the amount of heat generated. When I'm in a small room, I would rather use the Cool Lights any time.
 
Note to Richard... check the DIY section for that Diva thread... see the strain reliefs I posted?

If you put those on your fixtures then the actual cord would break before it would come loose... the cord won't be able to move even .01 millimeter with those strain reliefs attached. Even beyond the security they provide... they actually make that hole into the case waterproof. Not like somebody is going to use a light in the rain, but I'm just saying... the grip on the cord is so tight that it's actually waterproof.

Those strain reliefs weren't cheap... but they were a lot less expensive then an unhappy customer... around $1.50 each I think... and worth every penny. Plus... REALLY easy to implement on a lighting design... REALLY easy.
 
Imagine my surprise as I was sitting down to compose a support email to Gabriel (we just received it), we see a bad review already here in DVXUser. ;-) Has someone called in Judge Judy yet? All rise...

First of all, you sent the email and this posting in parallel which is extremely odd. Normally a public posting like this is left to when issues aren't satisfied or am I missing something that you want to try to do here?

Some thoughts do come to mind that I'll share:

1). This is DVXUser and not Coollights.biz. All our support is done at that site. We are a sponsor here and this is the General Lighting forum not the Cool Lights Support forum. While this posting certainly proves theres no censorship here, most people are civilized and understand the normal channels to get things done when something goes wrong and their motivations are just for getting something fixed not an excuse for making a public statement about how 'Arri really is better after all' or however it was phrased.

Thus, this forum is for general lighting questions and we occasionally use it to learn about what people want and need and that's our perogative as a sponsor. In no way, shape, or form is this our support forum for the details of whatever issues any given customer may have and how those are settled. The reason we don't normally have these kinds of posts here is these issues are settled in private, as they should be and as is the case with any manufacturer. And most people are reasonable and not looking for public support for some issue thats being overdramatized, but rather they're just looking for film lighting that works and they seem to instinctively know how thats done. For someone that doesn't instinctively get it: normal etiquette is that you would only expect a bad review if you didn't support someone. We didn't even get the chance yet. Why so trigger happy and why in such a hurry to rush in here with this business about Arri being better? We have hundreds of customers on this site but you're the only one that feels the need to post: "Cool Lights BEWARE" within hours of when you have a problem with new gear.

2). Nothing is perfect. All these things are put together by humans and from down at the component level to the final assembly level, there can be issues. Many here have had some issue of one kind or another but they were solved in a civilized manner. Its fantasy or inexperience at its finest to think that big brands like Arri or Kino don't have failures or issues too. Normally, most manufacturers know that once something makes it past the first 30 days, it will likely go on for a very long time. I didn't make that up, its just a fact. We have these issues occasionally, everyone does and we're handling them. No matter how much testing we do, it may be just a little too little and not enough to catch something. In any case, thats what warranties are for. They cover things well beyond the normal burn in period to make sure that people get something that should go on (given no catastrophic electrical event like a surge or other extenal event).

Anyone had their Cool Lights warranty ignored even when there was an external electrical event or an internal failure? The answer is no, if they told us about an issue, it was fixed or replaced. If I didn't know about it, nothing I can do. Does any normal, non-biased person here really believe here that we aren't handling our business correctly and that it wouldn't be public knowledge if we weren't?

3). What is the interest in posting something bad about a failure before the manufacturer is even given a chance to fix it? Posting here and simultaneously writing me for the first time is just wrong and obviously trying to start a flame war--check the regs of the site about that please.

I had a hard drive failure once out of the box. I've had others that were during or after warranty. I didn't write about it in public or turn it into a reality tv dramatization or try to draw someone into public debate about it. I calmly went to the manufacturers website and reviewed the warranty information and what the procedure was for fixing or replacing it. Same with anything that failed anywhere within warranty. I had issues with my RED camera but never felt the need to post in public about it. What are you trying to accomplish here?

4). Who believes they should unbox any new piece of gear and then show up to a shoot for the first time without some try out / learning about the gear--regardless of who made it. I would never unbox a complicated piece of gear (and yes this is more complex than a tungsten fresnel so its not appropriate to compare it to one--at a component level) without first testing it, no matter who made it. I'm not a fanboy of any company and I live in the real world where things can go wrong so we have backups too when I'm doing something important.

While we hope all the products we get are perfect, we know they aren't as nothing is perfect and its ultimately up to each of us to insure we know how to use gear and that it is working well before we take it out. Manufacturers can't know about issues unless we tell them and they can't have adequate time to work them out if we've left ourselves no wiggle room or time to work out 'infant mortality' issues with new (or older for that matter) electronic gear. Again, things are only perfect in fantasies of people with little experience or that are lucky most of the time.

5). The anonymity of the Internet is great isn't it? Friends can help out. Others that don't want to be helpful can overdramatize and even manufacture scenarios. Its hard to distingiush sometimes what's real. Those of you that have bought products and were just looking for good value in film lighting, gotten support (minor to none in most cases)--you can decide for yourself what's going on here. We do know we're going down some roads that are bound to upset some people and that has nothing to do with bad products but rather products which are hard to compete against. Some of those products will have issues as anything new will and we will take care of them as we always have.


In conclusion, what is it you're looking for? Getting a repair/replacement, refund or making a public issue out of something thats simply handled normally? Normal behavior aimed at my support channels gets normal behavior. Rudeness is just uncivilized and we have done nothing to warrant that. Thus, any communications with us should continue in our email channels and thats where we will finish this as is normally the case. Not here in the DVXUser lighting forum because Judge Judy is on your TV not here. If you continue to dramatize here or try to make some kind of flame war, that's going to be giving away more evidently what it is I think you're really trying to do here.

Thanks for your cooperation on this and any further information on your issues will be communicated there, not here, if you want service.
 
MattinSTL said:
Note to Richard... check the DIY section for that Diva thread... see the strain reliefs I posted?

If you put those on your fixtures then the actual cord would break before it would come loose... the cord won't be able to move even .01 millimeter with those strain reliefs attached. Even beyond the security they provide... they actually make that hole into the case waterproof. Not like somebody is going to use a light in the rain, but I'm just saying... the grip on the cord is so tight that it's actually waterproof.

Those strain reliefs weren't cheap... but they were a lot less expensive then an unhappy customer... around $1.50 each I think... and worth every penny. Plus... REALLY easy to implement on a lighting design... REALLY easy.
Click to expand...

Thanks. The actual cords do have strain reliefs--they're IEC types. He's talking about an IEC adapter that just needed its locking tabs spread better to catch it inside the ballast casing. We would normally have used a screw on type to attach to the casing but that ballast is so small as was our goal that we used a different kind with some locking tabs that fall into place when you put it in its punched hole. Its not a big deal unless you want it to be. If he didn't want to do it, he could have sent it back to us and we would have done it for him.

As for rubber stoppers on stands, I'm a bit mystified. The only ones I know about aren't used in actual use. They're solely for shipping the stand and have no other use and are normally thrown away.
 
Thanks for explaining that Richard... and for the record, I saw one of your HMI's on the O2 shoot and I thought it was a very nice light... and obviously I know a thing or two about lights. I remember seeing it and thinking "I WANT ONE!"

So... anyway... I'm glad you're taking care of business.
 
Richard, while I can definitely understand your position, I would have to rule in favor of the complaintive. As a Joe Average, we spend a butt load of cash we really don't have, to buy equipment to make our work easier and better. While it is really nice to have quick responses from a company's support, it in no way can compare with the equipment operating as expected. I am sure that you are more than happy to take his defective light back and exchange it for another, what is he supposed to do in the meantime?

Please understand, I am not trying to slam you in any way. But I am a consumer that has had to deal with defects, and there is a considerable loss of time and money when this happens. The usual order of events is-
1) You get the new item, and discover a problem.
2) You contact the company, and wait for a human to respond.
3) Eventually you get off of hold, or somebody responds to your email, and tells you to send the item back, then they will send you a new item. Unless of course, you want to be billed for another item and expedited shipping, then they will refund the price of the second unit when the first is received.
4) 3 weeks later, the new unit is hopefully being sent out.
5) Almost 1.5 months after the first item failed, you get to try again.

In the meanwhile, you are stuck doing nothing, making no money, and work has ceased to work. The manufacturer is not going to reimburse you for work lost, or the expense of having to rent a replacement either. Sorry, but that is the plain truth.
 
I understand all that. But its not realistic, these things are electronic, not purely electrical so they have more "moving parts". If you want something advanced its just more complex and like I said, you could never test enough. The CDM 150 is not even close to a tungsten fresnel in simplicity but that doesn't make it undesirable and plenty of people do understand what it is and are darn glad to have one--me included. But don't depend upon anything without backups. You don't go without a backup on your computer do you? Why go without a backup on complex production gear.

I can't speak for other manufacturers but we generally don't wait till we've gotten their item back. We always sent out a unit immediately even before we received the defective one except in maybe a couple of cases. That would have been the case this time too had we been given the chance.
 
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My reason for posting this review was very simple: to inform other DVXuser members.

I tested the lights 4 days before the shoot and found them to work properly. Then Sunday I put them to real use for the first time. During lighting setup one of them failed - to be precise, I unplugged one of the lights, moved things around, plugged light in again. The ballast was dead. I did not unplug the light-to-ballast plug, as Richard warns in the manual. I unplugged the ballast-to-outlet cord.

I didn't use this post to "get" anything - I have complete confidence in Richard's customer service and I know I'll get the ballast replaced with a new one. I posted this so others may know that I had a catastrophic failure with my light on its second use. DVXuser is a truly invaluable resource for all of us here (I'm sure you will all agree) because it informs us, the poor filmmakers. And that's exactly what I'm doing.

I love the light - when it's working. I might be the only owner with such an unfortunate malfunction. But nevertheless it happened, and on the second day of use.

Richard's customer service is still outstanding (I know a mattebox company that could benefit from his style...).
 
Gabriel, my two cents is that it's premature to post a preview after having experienced only one failure. It's entirely possible that you were unlucky to get one of the few units that were defective. It's unfortunate, but it can happen with every product, whether budget priced or not. It would make sense to post and inform the community only if you experienced failure of the second unit or if there were lapses in Richard's customer services, none of which happened here.
 
I for one appreciate the heads up.

I am interested in the different products, and I am very interested in hearing others experience. I'm looking at ordering a few more lights and have not yet decided who I will go with. This post won't settle my decision but has been helpful.

I doubt any lights are perfect but its nice to get a honest review. I want to hear both the good and bad, and keeping information like this out of the public eye is unfair.

If I was to order the cool lights product today, I would get the same system and be unaware of the flaws. Now that I know what to expect, I am a little better prepared.

Posts like this are often discouraged here, I think that's a shame. Its been my observation that Richard is quick to defend his products and ridicule anybody here not saying something positive or suggesting another product.
 
Richard,
It's very understandable that in cases like this, one would expect that the customer contact the maker for rectification of such problems before causing a stink. However, I really don't think that was his intention. This forum is used just as much to review products as to ask questions about them. Whether good or bad, people want to know what's out there, why they should spend their money where, and what they'll get. Now this gentleman's experience might be the exception to the rule regarding your product quality, but he was simply stating how his experience went. And I honestly think the support you show in this thread and on dvxuser will gain you more customers than one member could cost you by honestly evaluating your product. You have some fine stuff. So although this seems to be negative or a little out of common courtesy, my two cents would be to just help him fix the problem (whatever that means) and ask him to post again stating that you did follow through. Whenever we send out an item that's not satisfactory, I ask the customer returning it to include a written review of the why, so we can test those specifics and decide whether to carry the item anymore, or help them troubleshoot. Just some thoughts. Namaste
 
DVXusers BEWARE........"HELL" brand new babies are born "DEAD". I felt that he should of given "Cool Lights" a chance to address his corncerns frist. Instead of just posting. I don't think that Richard (Coollights) is trying to hide anything. If there's a problem with the fixture , there is a way to go about it. Thankyou.
 
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Okay, I just have to throw in my .02 here as well.

First off, let me just say that I'm not a 'fanboy' of any one product or another, nor one vendor over another. Just another indie filmmaker trying to pursue his craft and passion.

So with that being said, what I've come to learn putting a modest kit together is that there is a HUGE price gap between the vendors supplying 'indie' film gear vs. 'pro' quality gear. Most of the time, we are talking several orders of magnitude price-wise. If you've spent any time on this board and other similar boards, you know who all the players are. Richard and his Coollights are obviously one of these vendors.

If you take a step back and appreciate what Richard and some of the other vendors with their products are allowing us to do, you should be able to deal with the occasional problems that will undoubtedly arise. Have I had a problem with a product from Coollights? Sure, some stands I bought were faulty and Richard promptly took care of it to my satisfaction. I had a problem with my original Letus Extreme and Hien Le took promptly took care of that for me too. I had a problem with my Cinevate mattebox which Dennis Wood promptly took care of as well.

The point is, it would have cost me THOUSANDS more for my lights if I bought ARRI HMI's and KinoFlo fluorescents. Many thousands more if I bought a P+S Mini35, and another thousands more for a Chroziel mattebox. Moreover, there's absolutely no guarantee the same things wouldn't have happened had I bought the much more expensive gear. Do I expect high quality? Absolutely but the thousands that I saved by buying from these vendors allowed me to get other gear that I would not have been able to buy or would have had to sell one of my arms or kidneys for.

All the vendors I've listed as well as many others, are trying to earn an decent living by providing us with quality products at vastly affordable prices. In order to do this, some compromises are inevitable. They make up for this by providing good customer service when necessary and taking care of any problems that crop up in addition to constantly soliciting user feedback. I for one, have used all of my Coollights, including the CDM-150's, on several projects so far without any problems whatsoever.

Don't get me wrong... I too, encourage posts like these to give us heads up on possible product shortfalls but do so with the understanding and confidence that vendors like Richard are also committed to doing right by us. I applaud their efforts and certainly hope they are able to stay in business for many years to come.
 
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And I would like to point out, for $20 you can buy a set of worklights and stands from Home Depot, never have a problem with them. If you do, you just drive across town, and you have a new set within the hour, all at a savings of a few hundred per light, and several weeks down time. Sure, Cool Lights is doing a great job giving us small guys decent lights for much less than Arri, but at that price, you can't expect a lifetime free of problems either. Problems cost time and money, as well as your reputation. Now, if Richard could only start selling these at Home Depot, things would be great :)
 
RandomHero said:
Richard...
So although this seems to be negative or a little out of common courtesy, my two cents would be to just help him fix the problem (whatever that means) and ask him to post again stating that you did follow through.
Click to expand...

I must say that not only did Richard give me the chance to return all my purchases (which I won't do, since I am pleased with the rest of the equipment so far), he also sent me a new ballast (it's on its way) and gave me a fedex account I can use to return the defective ballast, thus saving me shipping costs.

I might have had an issue with his light, but his customer service deserves a medal.
 
Capt Quirk said:
And I would like to point out, for $20 you can buy a set of worklights and stands from Home Depot, never have a problem with them.
Click to expand...

I agree with you in principle, BUT, those worklights from Home Depot are not HMI's. Richard has given us HMI-quality lights for a fraction of the nearest option. Now comparing the tungsten equivalents, you may have a point, but I'd still rather get 'movie' lights with barndoors, etc. than the Home Depot worklights. Actually, I did try those out a while back and found out just how quickly they can heat a room up :).
 
Regardless of what you may think, convenience, or lack there of, is my biggest problem with equipment. Having to deal with waiting for a response, waiting for stuff to be redelivered, and the overall cost of shipping and waiting. Like I said, just being able to drive across town and have your new stuff is the best scenario I could think of... aside from having stuff that won't die in your time of need.
 
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