Considering using FCP instead of Vegas

D

der4

Active member
First off I must say that I am biased. I was trained in college on FCP. I also have very little time vested in Vegas. I own Vegas v7.

The main thing I like about FCP is the work flow. First I edit in FCP. Then I do audio in Soundtrack Pro. (Which is getting better.) I love all the loops and sound FX built into Soundtrack Pro. Honestly the sound FX are really good. I then use Motion for the graphics. If I really need AE I export sections with automatic duck. I then render and plug back into FCP. All the work in Soundtrack Pro and Motion go right back into the FCP timeline. I can color correct in Color then render out to DVD. DVD Studio Pro is just superior then most of what any PC DVD software can do in it's price range.

I really like the sound controls right in Vegas. And I can use AE and Photoshop for titling, compositing etc.

But my main hang up is FCP Studio's Color. Color is a very powerful tool. From what I understand Vegas, just like FCP, is restricted to 8 bits in it's color processing. I have tried to color correct a feature in AE. It's a NO GO. I won't do it. But Color looks great!

So here is my laundry list:

A) Is there a third party on the PC that can offer the same high end 10bit color tools that Color does? (Not AE. I won't do it.)

B) What do you use for free sound fx? Sountrack Pro comes with these.

C) What do you use for music sound loops? Soundtrack Pro comes with these.

D) What do you use for titling? Remember FCP has direct access to Motion. I can click on it in FCP. Open up motion. Make changes. Save in Motion. With FCP still open it's timeline refreshes the title changes. It's really easy.

E) Obviously I'm more limited on Vegas DVD Architecture. I guess I can live with that.

F) Also Soundtrack Pro has a very good noise reduction tool. Does Vegas have this? I noticed the Noise Reduction software from Sony is REALLY expensive. FCP Studio has this built in.

G) Compressor is a great tool for format conversions, reverse telecine, and other such exports. What compares to this on the PC? What price?

My main concern is Color Correction Tools/Noise Reduction/Sound FX/Titling/Compositing/Compressor type program. As far as editing and audio mixing Vegas looks very promising.

Also, if I buy the additional software's with Vegas (As mentioned above.) will I save money on software? (Even if Windows XP doesn't even compare to OSX. Really NO Comparison.) Plus I have to learn a whole bunch of new tools. Is it worth it?

Remember my budget is $1200.00 (Not including AE/Photoshop) I need a PC package that is at least comparible and hopefully better.
 
der4 said:
G) Compressor is a great tool for format conversions, reverse telecine, and other such exports. What compares to this on the PC? What price?

.
Click to expand...

Is compressor the IC? if so, a great solution for PC is cineform, which is included in you vegas 7 though a lot of people don't know it. Or you can get CF as standalone. Great codec.
 
It looks like the comparison to compressor is Sorenson Squeeze. Actually I do have NEO HD. I have nothing but praise for this codec.
 
Completely sincere question here -- if you liked FCP that much, why didn't you continue with it? If you're happier with it, go back to it.

Remember, though, that you're comparing a $1200 suite of several programs to Vegas by itself, and I think you may not have explored Vegas's incredibly rich set of compositing tools.

I don't really understand this, though:

E) Obviously I'm more limited on Vegas DVD Architecture. I guess I can live with that.
Click to expand...
What does that mean?
 
Dave,
I didn't me to offend you or anyone else. Remember I did say I was biased.

I worked with a company that had FCP Studio. I also used it in college. Since then I have moved. I already have a copy of Vegas and a PC. I will be shooting this summer. I have considered using Vegas since I already own it. I am waying out the pro's and cons of purchasing a mac with Final Cut Studio.

Yes the cost of a mac plus the software is a lot. The list I wrote out was what I like about FCP Studio. As I have researched putting together a full software package I am feeling a little discouraged. Because of this I decided to post my questions here. I already know FCP users opinion on this. I'm trying to figure out a workflow with Vegas if I'm going to use it. There are things I will need:

EDITING: Vegas. Check!
Sound Editing: Vegas. Check!

Noise Reduction: Does Vegas have this or do I need the plug-in?

Sound FX: I guess I need the Sound FX package? Any suggestions?

Color Corrections: Is Vegas only 8 bit? I will be working with 10 bit files. I'm a little confused about this because everyone says it's 8 bit but it processes 10 bit. I just need some clarity.

Titling: What is a good solution? Is everyone using Boris?

DVD Arch: Check! (I obviously have not gone into depth with this program. Thank you for questioning me on this. I may be completely off. I've been told that it doesn't do scripting. Again every post I read, including on dvxuser, talks about DVD Arch and it's lack of features compared to DVD Studio Pro.)

Cinform: Check!

Compressor type program: Sorenson Squeeze seems to be the answer.

Music: Acid looks very promising. In the past I have used Logic Pro. But Acid is half the price with similar features. Very cool!

I have no doubt Vegas is a solid editing program. Infact, in some respects it has been way ahead of FCP. Mixed timelines is a good example. It took way to long for FCP to offer this.

My brother convinced me to consider Vegas. He loves it! Plus, many people here love it. I'm just trying to look at this from my workflow point of view. I don't just edit, I do all post, including sound and scoring. Truthfully for sound I love using Pro Tools but to get the features I want it's out of my budget. And based on my experiences in the past with Sonic Foundry the audio in Vegas sounds very promising. I really am trying to consider this NLE. I'm just trying to way things out based on cost versus the features that fit with my workflow. Your input is appreciated.

Thanks Again!

-D
 
I'm not offended in the least -- I just genuinely didn't understand why you didn't stay with FCP. Seemed to be what you're really looking for.

Vegas doesn't have the Noise Reduction Tool by itself. It does, however, have excellent tools (noise gate, compressor, EQ) which can minimize noise problems. (Of course, the best way to reduce noise is to record as little of it as possible!)

Vegas came with a CD full of Sony sound FX (don't know what they're doing these days) . . . but again, best results come in recording your own.

Vegas does its color processing in 10-bit and has all the same tools as FCP. A great free plugin is Aav6cc.

For titling, I think Boris is almost, but not entirely, worthless (as is the LT version of Boris FX which comes with Vegas). Honestly, I've never figured out why people think Vegas's titling is so bad. I've only ever once gone out of Vegas for titling, and that's because I wanted the letters to flow down a bezier curve. For that, I used Pinnacle Commotion. It still could have been done in Vegas; it just would have taken a long time to do it.

For DVD Architect, what are you looking to do?

But like I said, I'm not trying to convince you of anything; indeed, if FCP fits you like a glove, then use it.
 
If you are able and willing to spend the money, I'd move to FCP. The Studio 2
package is incredibly rich, and a steal IMHO.

Here's my take on the reasons to go with FCP (I have nothing negative to say about Vegas, as I have never used it).

The skills you learn working with FCP will have greater future compatibility/employabilty - 2nd only to Avid - soon to be number 1 I believe (most of my clients upgrading their Avids are moving instead to FCP). If you wish to be hired as an editor, FCP is pretty much universally accepted -- eg. It is expressly approved by National Geographic for HD finishing (I have finished 3 one hour docs for them on FCP).

The ability to work with other independent producers who have FCP is a real bonus for workflow, and encourages them to bring me in on a project, as it's so easy to integrate my work with theirs.

That's a few reasons to go with FCP, not to mention the other terrific applications that are included with it, and it works great!

PS. FCP does work in 10bit color.

Best of luck with your projects.
 
Though I'm a Vegas fan and user, I agree that you should really look to stick with what you already have experience with. Why learn something brand new? It's not as if there are a tremendous amount of things Vegas can do that FCP can't. I think for the reasons stated by Digihead makes a lot of sense as well. Even if you have to spend more money going that route, in the end, the time you save in the learning curve with FCP should easily pay for any additional expense now.

Jon
 
I did the opposite...went from vegas to final cut pro back to vegas....i hated fcp....its just a matter of habits i guess. The important thing is the final product....both will allow you to get theyre.
 
Thanks for the input everyone. I've come to the conclusion that there is no sense for me to learn Vegas when I have much more experience in Final Cut Pro. That being said I am going to purchase a mac pro and FCP Studio 2.

However, I do own a nice PC with Vegas that I don't want to let go to waste. A graphic designer friend of mine will be working with me in the office on Vegas creating trailers, web media, and other such promotional materials in Vegas while I edit the feature on the mac. This will be an efficient use of my time and gear. He will also go through clips digitizing and preparing those with Cineform on the PC. That way while I edit he can prep more footage. It should be interesting using cineform footage on both the PC and Mac. With Neo HD we will use the quicktime wrapper for the file. Does Vegas work with quicktime? Or should be export both a .mov and .avi file? I hope not.

I'm excited to try this out! Thanks Again!
 
Yes, Vegas edits Quicktimes.

One of the core strengths of Vegas was always that it would work with any footage on any timeline and in its native codec. Mix and match to your heart's content.

That's a little less true these days with the increasing Sony-fication of it, but there are plugins, especially those by DVFilm (Raylight; Raylight decoder) which make up for the shortcomings.
 
Thanks! I figured it did. I'm looking forward to trying out this program. It looks very promising. We'll try it out for our trailers and other such promo materials first and get our feet wet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top