Considering My Audio Guy Future

R

Rob Neidig

Member
Hi, all. I am in the process of trying to decide how to continue in the business as my career winds down. Like many of you, through the years I have done a little bit of everything - shooting, lighting, editing, graphics, and audio. Last year I left my full time job and "semi-retired", planning to accept freelance gigs. I decided to specialize in audio-for-video as there are fewer people who specialize in that part of the business, and I have always had more knowledge in audio than your typical video person. The last year has gone pretty well, but several of my freelance gigs have been as camera person and editor. The audio jobs seem to be getting fewer and farther between. I know the business has been moving this way for a while now, with budgets getting lower and with both clients and people new to the industry putting less importance on separation of duties and hiring specialists.

So... not to start a whole discussion about "the good ol' days" vs. today, or the merits of an actual crew to accomplish what so many expect one person to do nowadays, I just thought I would ask what all of you think about where we are headed and help me decide where to put my energy.

To help narrow the focus here, I work primarily in the corporate and commercial arena, with training and promotional projects, as well as on a regional/national level as crew when news organizations, tv magazine shows, etc. need production done in my area. And I am not in NYC or LA where I presume jobs would be more plentiful.

Do you see "sound person" as a diminishing role in the business?

Are there other avenues of freelancing I would be better off pursuing?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Rob
 
Interesting question. There are a couple of things that make sound work fairly unstable. Outside of big budget features the level of sound shows do tends to be fairly cyclical. Theatre is that way also. You get a show or ad that does well gets attention and if they did a heavy sound show then a bunch of others decide that "is the secret" and suddenly there is a bunch of work. Then someone does a show with hardly any sound and it's a hit and the reverse happens. When I was doing a lot of theatre it seemed that it was about a 6 year up followed by a 6 year down, rinse and repeat. When I got in to ads the guy I was working with and I had been doing features with decent budgets and the agencies all wanted that "cinematic" sound and we did great. Then a 7 month actors strike moved a lot of stuff overseas and the shift away from big complex sound designs started. There are still some gigs with great sound but harder to find. Low budget films ... It's all over the map but mostly they have no money so doing a lot of sound is usually something you are doing because you want to and not because they are paying for the hours.

The other thing is what is available is VERY dependent on where you are and how well connected you are. I moved from the Bay Area (where I had many decades of connections) to Detroit where I had almost none AND (ironically) there is very little interest in sound in Detroit. Consequentially I'm doing a lot of other things and picking up bits and pieces in terms of sound gigs.

You sound like you are doing production sound, and that is usually done even if they are going to have the pict. editor "do" their sound.

Not to get on a "good old days" rant but there is a LOT of really bad audio out there on videos. I saw something on Netflix the other day where they most not have even had decent monitoring, let alone any sound post. It was a doc. and dialog would suddenly be all out of one speaker and then shift to the other, and then back center. I have seen this out of pict editors that were essentially monitoring in mono so they didn't notice when one side dropped out. But it is streaming on Netflix!

The point is the bar has been lowered. Not that there is not some great sound work out there but some real junk is also getting played so the incentive to do a good job is not what it was.

The future?

I think it will come back. Really good sound adds so much to a show... People get distracted and think X is fine, and then someone does it right and suddenly everyone is thinking about sound again. Get a couple of new "sound" directors (the old ones are mostly retired now) with some hits and things will change. The potential today for really fantastic sound is better than it ever has been. The tools are stellar and the cost has come way down.
 
One of my friends that I shoot with has said before that that is going to be his "ride off into the sunset".
 
> Do you see "sound person" as a diminishing role in the business?

Ya, sadly. I still do a fair amount of location sound work, but I'm doing more producing, writing, and shooting. OTOH, like with bass players there are still sound gigs available. OTOOH, like bass players it's really hard to get reasonable rental rates for the equipment we bring to the gig.

I see an increasing number of decent location sound people, lower barriers to entry (with G3, Zoom F4, etc being good enough for many clients), and stagnant day rates for labor.

So I'd say IF you already have your kit and your wireless systems are in blocks that will remain viable in your location for a couple years, you might as well keep the kit and be available for sound jobs. Especially if your kit is perfectly reasonable, but unlikely to command a high price on the used market (say if you have a Sound Devices 442/744T mixer/recoder, not the current hip mics, Lectro 200 series wireless, etc)...why both trying to sell it unless you really need the cash?


> Are there other avenues of freelancing I would be better off pursuing?
Around here, a lot of soundies slid into DIT gigs. The attention to technical detail and ability to keep quiet really pays off. But it seems these days we have all the DITs we need, and fewer gigs call for DITs these days. And on reflection, I think it was the cart-based soundies who became DITs. At least around here. But depending on your market, maybe that's worth at least looking into?

And how about producing? Sure, there's the sales & biz side of things. But if you've been in the industry for a while, can handle picture and sound, and are OK interfacing with clients, why not try running a few small gigs and seeing how you like the work and the still-healthy rates and margins? You probably already know the right crew members to hire...

I do some producing, and on small jobs, I'll work at the mixer...I can direct and get the story better from behind a mic than behind the camera. That' both because of my experience and also because with audio I'm focusing on the interview & story anyway. Not saying camops can't direct/produce while rolling...I work with (And for) some who do fine. But my audio experience sure doesn't hurt, esp for projects with big interview segments...and when I hire a good camera person and let them do their craft.


Seriously. Go where the money is.

Jim
 
Firstly do the figures.... Take the 'audio dream' out of it, look at your investments v return. Use actual figures not just what you think it might be.
People often get sucked in by the dream and ignore the numbers.... most of those go broke.
 
Thanks everyone for the input.

Jim - I hear you on the bass player reference. My other passion is music and I play drums and trombone. So I have certainly faced the same downward spiral of income there as well.

I have had my kit for a while - Sound Devices SD552, Lectro 400 series, 2 Lectro 200 series, a couple of Sennheiser G3s, Senn 416, Schoeps MCM641, Zoom F8, etc. Definitely above what most production companies own, but also most do not seem willing to pay for a separate sound person.

I am not familiar with "DIT". Can you fill me in?

I have done quite a bit of producing in the past. I am not a great sales guy, so the tough part for me is bringing the jobs in. You're right, I could crew up with some really good people I have known for years. I was looking forward to NOT having the overall responsibility for the shoot in my "semi-retirement", though.

Some good thoughts. I appreciate it!
 
OzGizmo said:
Firstly do the figures.... Take the 'audio dream' out of it, look at your investments v return. Use actual figures not just what you think it might be.
People often get sucked in by the dream and ignore the numbers.... most of those go broke.
Click to expand...

"audio dream"? I wonder if anybody really gets in to audio for video as a passion for the work. Many of the audio guys I know had a passion for music production until it fell through. Or doing sound design for features. I feel like audio for video is just your average blue collar trade work. But, I find a far higher demand for sound guys in this area than any other part of a video production crew.

"DIT" is the guy that dumps data onto hard drives. For some reason I can't think of what it stands for right now.
 
I can tell you of two opinions I personally know of. . .one guy "loves the nuances of sound" and started in sound post before moving into location work. Another location sound guy, when I said to him "well, you must have some passion for sound," said, "no, this job fulfills my need to neurotic about something."

I would think "failed musicians" would have found something more music related. . .musician session work (if their chops and theory are up to snuff), mixing music, etc. etc. Unless those pay so crappily that location sound seems like the GOOD alternative.
 
cpreston said:
"audio dream"? I wonder if anybody really gets in to audio for video as a passion for the work. Many of the audio guys I know had a passion for music production until it fell through. Or doing sound design for features. I feel like audio for video is just your average blue collar trade work. But, I find a far higher demand for sound guys in this area than any other part of a video production crew. .
Click to expand...

I can tell you that yes there are folks who are in sound for the passion, and were never musicians, failed or otherwise. Great sound has a lot in common with music but as a rule real musicians make not so great sound post people. It's really a different skill. Not totally alien but different.

Designers as a rule are closer to the mark, but sound has it's own skill set.

Production sound is more the annal tech guy since they are more about the live problem solving. But post people, the good ones anyway, are more about trying to figure out how to create the directors vision. That takes a lot of communication skills. 90% of post sound is slicing and dicing. It's great to be fast and really knowing your tools but figuring out what you are trying to create is the big nut. There are a ton of people with some music background who "do" sound post but darn few of them know how to figure out a directors vision. Or even how to break down how to build up a sound scape.

Docs in general are more about cleanup than "creating" but if you look at "classic" great sound designs it has everything to do with understanding the "world" the director is envisioning and very little to do with tools.

A lot may have got into sound in the first place for reasons other than "passion" but the ones who stay and are good stay because of passion.
 
Rob Neidig said:
I have had my kit for a while - Sound Devices SD552, Lectro 400 series, 2 Lectro 200 series, a couple of Sennheiser G3s, Senn 416, Schoeps MCM641, Zoom F8, etc. Definitely above what most production companies own, but also most do not seem willing to pay for a separate sound person.
Click to expand...

I started out on a Tascam DR60D mk1, then moved up to the Sound Devices 552 (and sold off the DR60D).

But the 552 is quite limiting being only a two track recorder.

So my next step up was getting a Tascam DR680 and using that together with the 552 in front of the DR680. Thus getting 4 ISO tracks.

However now I have this year being using a Zoom F4, much more prefer it over the DR680/552 combo!

So as you've got a bunch of wireless (& can easily run more than two tracks, if needed) then I'd highly recommend you consider the Zoom F4 (or F8). Would improve what you can then offer post.

Plus: time code! (although the 552 can have time code jammed to it too)
 
Josh Bass said:
Another location sound guy, when I said to him "well, you must have some passion for sound," said, "no, this job fulfills my need to neurotic about something."
Click to expand...

Hahaha, that is an awesome quote!

Josh Bass said:
I would think "failed musicians" would have found something more music related. . .musician session work (if their chops and theory are up to snuff), mixing music, etc. etc. Unless those pay so crappily that location sound seems like the GOOD alternative.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately that is likely true, many of the music related jobs are rather poorly paid.
 
Well this is my 38th year in film and TV sound and I suppose I still like it and it pays for my lifestyle and a nice boat on the Thames in London.

Here at SKY in London we struggle to get suitable experienced sound supervisors as most of the grads seem to go down the location recordist route or haven't been able to get access to the required training.

I was lucky that my first job at 19 was with the north east regional ITV network company Tyne Tees TV and I got a good cross section of work on film, studio and OB's.

This has enabled me to move sectors when industry changes genre and I have been a dubbing mixer for 20 years and recently on Olympics and high end sports production at the OB end and now in the warmth and comfort of the studio.

My freelance rate had not changed for over 10 years and as we now have to pay all of our own travel and accommodation costs in effect this has eroded my salary so much that two years ago I took a staff job for the security and as I head towards 60.

Ok it means I am still on half the salary of my prime freelance dubbing days but as I also get a good pension and insurances against sickness with paid holiday leave it is a good for me at the moment. Work is still 300 miles from my home though but that is why I got the boat on the Thames as a lifestyle choice whilst away from home and it gives us nice holidays cruising too.

My main passion is still drama and music but I tend to not do much of those now as it is mainly sports here at SKY but I have my pro tools and logic set-ups at home and on my boat so can still be creative, I even bought a camera and re-trained as a DOP a few years ago but as every kid on the block now has a camera I stick to what I know best these days.

I can't see myself retiring and giving up the job I love but it may be that in time I will have to cut back the number of days I work each month but we shall see.
 
IronFilm said:
So as you've got a bunch of wireless (& can easily run more than two tracks, if needed) then I'd highly recommend you consider the Zoom F4 (or F8). Would improve what you can then offer post.

Plus: time code! (although the 552 can have time code jammed to it too)
Click to expand...

I already have an F8. I actually also have 2 Tascam DR680 units. I love them for recording bands live. Thanks for the input.
 
Whoops, I missed that bit where you said you had a F8! My bad.

And wow, we've got a very similar set up of gear it seems! :)
 
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