Connecting SD302 mixer to audio recorder

S

Steve Lewis

Member
Hello,

I recently purchased a Sound Devices 302 mixer. I need to buy an audio recorder now. I am leaning towards the Tascam DR 40 (unless you fellas can think of a better one in the same general price range).

What I'd like to do is save the XLR outs on the 302 for the camera and use the Tape Out of the 302 for the recorder. (using this cable:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/372095-REG/Remote_Audio_CASD442TOY_Sound_Devices_442_Y.html )

The problem is that the Tape Out of the 302 is UNBALANCED and the Tascam DR 40 has BALANCED XLR inputs. Will this present a problem? If so, can you think of a way to conenct the 302 to the audio recorder without using the XLR outputs of the 302?

Thanks for your time/attention/help with this!!

Steve
 
Unbalanced to balanced is not the least of your worries. The Tape Out on the 302 is low line level, nominally -15dBu. The XLR inputs on the DR-40 are mic level. Using thecable you linked to without adding inline pads will overload the recorder inputs. You need a TA3 to 1/4 phone Y-cable so you can use the recorder's line level inputs. This still might not be an optimal solution since the DR-40 has a +4dBu nominal line level. So with the XLR inputs the 302 output is too strong while with the 1/4 inputs the 302 output is too weak.
 
Steve House said:
The XLR inputs on the DR-40 are mic level. Using thecable you linked to without adding inline pads will overload the recorder inputs.
Click to expand...

The DR 40 actually has mic/line switchable analog inputs. So that shouldn't be a problem. If anything, the tape out signal will be too weak as the dr40 wants a +4 dbu line level.

How about the unbalanced to balanced issue?
 
You might instead consider a recorder with a 1/8 line input, such as the olympus LS-line or Sony M10, which are good recorders but without XLR-inputs.
 
Steve Lewis said:
The DR 40 actually has mic/line switchable analog inputs. So that shouldn't be a problem. If anything, the tape out signal will be too weak as the dr40 wants a +4 dbu line level.

How about the unbalanced to balanced issue?
Click to expand...
I don't believe they are switchable but I could be wrong. The analog inputs on the base of the recorder are XLR combo jacks. The XLR portion is mic level; for line level you plug a 1/4" phone plug into the centre hole. The manual has no indication that the XLRs themselves can be switched to accept line level signals. The 302's Mix Out TA3 is wired left hot on pin 2, right hot on pin 3, and signal ground on pin 1. To send the unbalanced output to the recorder's balanced input, connect the TA-3 pin 2 to the left plug tip, pin 3 to the right plug tip, pin 1 to BOTH plug sleeves, jumper each plug's ring to its sleeve. To unbalance a balanced XLR input, connect signal hot to XLR pin 2, signal ground to XLR pin 1, and jumper XLR pin 3 to pin 1 (it's highly probable that that is the way the cable you pointed to is wired).
 
@Jema
I think I would want a recorder with as much versatility as possible. So I need one that has both XLR line-level inputs and a 1/8" line input. Can you suggest one for me?

@Steve
Page 48 of the manual seems to indicate that all analog inputs (both XLR & 1/4) are mic/line switchable. I could be misreading it though. However, I have encountered other forum postings extolling the DR 40's XLR line level inputs. Maybe you could recommend me a recorder under $400 that will be versatile and accept both XLR & 1/8" line inputs?

Thanks to both of you for your help!!
 
DR-40 has no problem with LINE level signals, and the internal pre-amps are pretty quiet when boosting the SD TAPE OUT signal. ( noise-floor is around -75 dB RMS )

I use a SD MixPre-D which I feed the TAPE-OUT to an Olympus LS-12 or a Sony PCM-M10, which also record with a noise-floor around -75 dB RMS. I own all three recorders ( DR-40, LS-12, M10 ), but prefer to use the LS-12 or M10 with my SD mixer because the battery life is 30+ hours for the M10 ( 50+ hours for the LS-12 ) and these are small recorders that are easy to tuck into your audio bag. ( the DR-40 battery life is around 10 hours when phantom is switched OFF, and physically it's about twice the size of either the Olympus or Sony recorders )
 
Why in the world are the main outs going to camera? If you are recording double system, I'd use the main XLR outputs to go to a recorder, and then send the tape out to camera as a scratch track. I'd go with the Sound Devices 702 recorder. Works well in a back and sounds great.
 
Steve Lewis said:
@Jema
I think I would want a recorder with as much versatility as possible. So I need one that has both XLR line-level inputs and a 1/8" line input. Can you suggest one for me?

@Steve
Page 48 of the manual seems to indicate that all analog inputs (both XLR & 1/4) are mic/line switchable. I could be misreading it though. However, I have encountered other forum postings extolling the DR 40's XLR line level inputs. Maybe you could recommend me a recorder under $400 that will be versatile and accept both XLR & 1/8" line inputs?

Thanks to both of you for your help!!
Click to expand...
You may be right, however look at the illustrations on pages 46 & 47
 
Hi David,
Thanks for your reply. Sadly, the 702 recorder is out of my price range.

I'm shooting with a canon 7D, which has a mic level, unbalanced 1/8" input. If I send the xlr outs on the 302 to the recorder I would only be left with a line level signal to feed to the 7D. Is there a way to connect the tape out of the 302 to a mic level, 1/8" input?

Now, at some point, I'll get a better camera (Blackmagic pocket camera possibly) which will most likely accept line-level signals, but until then I need to work with the DSLR.
 
Fwiw I have successfully connected the tape out of a Sound Devices Mix-Pre to the 1/8" unbalanced mic level input on a canon HF100 (consumer) camcorder. I used a male to male 1/8" stereo headphone cable, Radioshack I think and a Koss VC20 volume control. http://www.amazon.com/Koss-155954-VC20-Volume-Control/dp/B00001P4XH . Although hardly pro equipment, I got pretty good sound at a school musical, what was planed as scratch audio was used for the DVD. I think the tape output on the 302 is a different connector, you'd need a short cable converting it to 1/8". If you do decide to try this route, what I did to set levels was first set manual level on camera, try either 1/3" up or plug in a cheap mike and set camera level while talking into it. Don't adjust camera level after this. On the 302 turn on the 1kHz tone, slowly turn up the Koss volume control until your camera meter reads -12dB. Don't adjust Koss after this. Now only adjust levels on rhe 302 as needed, have limiters on. May need some trial and error, on my camcorder it is possible to cause distortion by having camcorder level too low and Koss too high
 
Steve Lewis said:
What about the Tascam DR100mkII? That seems to have both xlr & 1/8 Would the DR100mkII do the trick for me?
Click to expand...

Sure the DR-100 Mk2 works, but for me it has the same problems the DR-40 has in that it's very big compared to the the Olympus LS-12 or Sony PCM-M10, and it also has short battery life.

I'm a big believer in using the right tool for the job, so I'd rather own several recorders than to try and make one do everything. For the price of the DR-100 Mk2 recorder you could almost buy a DR-40 and an Olympus LS-12.

I also like having back-ups, so if something happens to one unit, I always have a back-up to get me through. ( same goes with mics, cameras, lenses, lights, etc... )
 
Perhaps I've had this all wrong. Maybe I ought to take Dave's advice and use the main XLR outputs on the 302 for the tascam dr 40 recorder and then somehow attenuate the Tape out for the dslr camera. The tape out is a -15dbu line level, so what kind of pad do I need to match it to the mic level input on the camera? -25db? I guess I would get a TA3F to 3.5mm cable and then a -25db pad with female to male 3.5mm plugs?
Am I on the right track?
 
I wouldn't feed any audio to the camera. Just use a dumb slate to sync the video and audio. The camera has a less than stellar built in mic that will at least pick up the sticks and you can line them up quickly. I never feed audio to my 7D. I record to my 744t, dumb slate it, and call it a day.
 
Any regular XLR cable will work.

I've never fed audio to my 7D, so I don't know if your previous post would work based on my personal experience.
 
Steve Lewis said:
Perhaps I've had this all wrong. Maybe I ought to take Dave's advice and use the main XLR outputs on the 302 for the tascam dr 40 recorder and then somehow attenuate the Tape out for the dslr camera. The tape out is a -15dbu line level, so what kind of pad do I need to match it to the mic level input on the camera? -25db? I guess I would get a TA3F to 3.5mm cable and then a -25db pad with female to male 3.5mm plugs?
Am I on the right track?
Click to expand...
Apparently there are quite a few stereo mini attenuator cables. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Type_DSLR+Line+to+Mic&ci=16494&N=4279260857+4248627753
 
The 302 > DR-40 should work just fine with standard XLR cables, providing the DR-40 is in the Line mode and the 302's XLR out should not be attenuated. If the user wants to send the HP out from the DR-40 to the DSRLs mic input, Sescom makes adapter cables specifically for this purpose. Using the 302's Tape out for mic level would also require attenuation, though I'm not aware of any 'off the shelf' cables. SD has the resistor values on the website though.
 
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