conflict between DP and director

K

keep it moving Jay

Active member
Just wanted to sahre one of my experiences. I understand the DP role of bringing to live the director's vision through lighting, film stock, or digital camera settings etc. But I also know that the driector has the last word in terms of acheiving his creative vision. though he puts a lot of trust in the DP.

what if the DP starts directing the actors i.e. director calls action, dp starts talking to the actors...

in my book this is a no no. only person that ever talks to the actors is the director, in order to avoid confusion and allow the director to achieve his vision. UNLESS the director gives the DP the ok.

what if the DP wants gamma setting different than what the director wants. Who's gets the last word? Of course it's the director. What if the DP starts to debate with the director in front of the actors and ademantly defies the director's call? If the director says f5 and dp says f4. it's f5 period. the DP has to adapt and go with the flow. than talk to eh doriector after the shot if he has any concerns.

What if the DP tells the director while the director is shooting (director chooses to shoot some shots) do this shot do this shot, seconds before roll.

anyway. should this DP be fired? He has missed 4 of my dream shots because of a lighting issue.

ALso he argues with me after I told him THE DIRECTRO CONTROLS THE SET OUTSIDE OF THE LABLE AND PRODUCERS. A DP COULD GET FIRED FOR THE THINGS YOU'VE DONE. He replies: " director can't say that."

shooting in chicago
 
Ask yourself honestly .."who's got more experience?" But you two do not seem like a good match from the get go.
He should honor your vision and not second quess you in front of the rest of the crew. He should only make suggestions to the cast, if it's a blocking issue with lighting or scene transition, not on dialogue and delivery. (Is he ever right, and you can't admit it ?) I suggest you two go lock yourself in a room and work it out before returning to the set. If he has suggestions, he should approach you and speak to only you, Or the AD. Since this "partnership" is just that, collaboration is important, and you two should be on the same page..literally. Good luck.
 
Ultimately whoever is signing the paychecks calls the shots :) But I'd bag the DP. Sounds like he's cocky and a pain to work with and possibly not all that skilled if hes missing shots. Now if he really had a reason for going with f4 instead of f5 or whatever the arguement was, I'd listen. Then again I'd rather just have a DP that I can trust to do the right thing. No DP should ever be directing talent. Thats pretty much a given. And a director can say anything they want... Thinking more about this he sounds really annoying to work with...
 
Sounds like he should get the boot. Even if he has way more experience than you, he should know that if you're the director, it's his job to make your vision come to life.

I've seen DPs do stuff like this before, and I've never appreciated it. I worked on ashort in December with a first-time director who had no idea what she was doing or what she wanted and towards the end the DP just started taking over directing for the sake of getting it done and going home. But IMO, if the DP refuses to respect the hierarchy, he should get the boot. It sounds like he needs an attitude adjustment and feels he should be directing, not you. In that sense, he will not adhere to your vision, and willfully so, which means your collaboration is falling apart.
 
You are far too patient. I would have booted his ass long before he did half of the stuff you describe.
 
Hmmm.... my first question is, why are you even working with this guy? If nothing else, this should teach you never to work with someone who doesn't share your vision. If you guys are arguing over f5 vs. f4, then you obviously don't share the same vision.

There are a couple main points to tackle: If this cat is directing your actors, yeah, that's a big problem. Take him aside and calmly address the issue. But when he speaks to the actors, is he addressing blocking issues or acting techniques? If its blocking, then sure, let the guy talk to the actors. He's the DP. Of course, if he is completely changing the blocking on the fly, once again, take him aside and talk to him about it. You need to be on the same page as your DP at all times.

The line on the other examples you gave is a bit more fuzzy; gamma settings, f-stops, etc. Yes, you are the director and in the end it's mostly your vision that will end up on screen, so if you want to draw a firm line and say, "I get the final say on this, this and that" then OK, this is your call. But once again, why wasn't this stuff decided in pre-production? And also remember that as a director, it is important to trust your DP. It sounds like you don't trust him very much. Why? Has he given you a reason not to trust him? On the flip side, have you seen his previous work; something to show that you can trust him? As directors we tend to think we always have the best ideas about our product/art/vision but its very important to keep an open mind about other peoples' ideas as well.

You mentioned the DP arguing with you in front of the actors... very unprofessional. But did you engage him in the argument? If so, you are just as guilty. If that happened to me (and it has), the actors would catch only a few seconds of action before I took the discussion somewhere private.

My other question is, why are you shooting some of the shots? Why not let the DP do it? That's his job. If I were reading into this situation, I'd say that you really want to direct/DP the whole project. Nevertheless, I really think you should let the DP do his thing. As a director, I like to have a direct influence on the shots in the film. I need to work with a DP that is OK with me coming up with some of my own shots. Sounds like you are this way too. But despite that, when I'm on set, my focus is on the actors. This, again, is a trust issue.

keep it moving Jay said:
ALso he argues with me after I told him THE DIRECTRO CONTROLS THE SET OUTSIDE OF THE LABLE AND PRODUCERS. A DP COULD GET FIRED FOR THE THINGS YOU'VE DONE. He replies: " director can't say that."
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This sounds like a cat fight. Seriously. As the director, even if you are 100% correct, you have to stay above these kinds of arguments. These aren't things you should say to the DP. If you think his actions warrant being fired, take it up with the producer. In the end, its the producer who has the right to hire/fire anyone, even the director.
 
IBE makes excellent points as well - if you're engaging in arguments and trying to take creative control over the shots, you could well be stepping on his toes. Is he the DP or is he the cameraman? I've worked with people who hire me to do camera, but then it turns out they want to DP as well and just want me to push the button, then wind up taking total control of the camera and lights as well while I just wander off to look busy. At the end of the day, it's his job and I won't fight with him if that's what he wants to do, but it is terribly annoying if someone is hired for something and then they don't get to do it because a director wants to take all the jobs and glory.

But I think a director should have some say in gamma control, f-stops, etc. If he wants a higher f-stop for a particular reason, whether it be for a darker shot or deeper focus, that's their decision and a DP should make a good argument for their version. But if it doesn't fit in with the director's vision of the shot, that's gonna be an issue as well.
 
IBE makes excellent points as well - if you're engaging in arguments and trying to take creative control over the shots, you could well be stepping on his toes. Is he the DP or is he the cameraman? I've worked with people who hire me to do camera, but then it turns out they want to DP as well and just want me to push the button, then wind up taking total control of the camera and lights as well while I just wander off to look busy. At the end of the day, it's his job and I won't fight with him if that's what he wants to do, but it is terribly annoying if someone is hired for something and then they don't get to do it because a director wants to take all the jobs and glory.

But I think a director should have some say in gamma control, f-stops, etc. If he wants a higher f-stop for a particular reason, whether it be for a darker shot or deeper focus, that's their decision and a DP should make a good argument for their version. But if it doesn't fit in with the director's vision of the shot, that's gonna be an issue as well.
 
IBEJohnson said:
Why? Has he given you a reason not to trust him? On the flip side, have you seen his previous work; something to show that you can trust him? As directors we tend to think we always have the best ideas about our product/art/vision but its very important to keep an open mind about other peoples' ideas as well.
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after looking over the first dailies (first day), many shots were way too dark. the villian was supposed to be dollied in light, when i saw the clips, hte villian was in total darkness off frame as well. RED FLAG. thought about it and decided to take the helm and operate the camera. He wasn't too happy about this. This is when the ranting started. yes i could of fired him but too late to replace him at that point. Now I just fired him, giving him an elctric credit if he likes.

going into reshoots. Luckily i got a lot of coverage enough to pull off some nice edits.

bottom line is the director hires the DP in most instances. DPs most adpat to on set chnages in vision, period.
 
not necessarily "period". i've been on at least two sets in the last year where the DP saved the director's ass in terms of coverage. and these are major studio releases i'm talking about, which will remain nameless because i like working.
 
Yeah, not "period." I mean, a DP is supposed to be your partner, not your monkey. If you want him to just press the button, then DP it and hire a camera operator. Just be aware that all those times you're watching the frame line, you're not watching the acting. That's why the roles are separate. But if he can't do his job, then get rid of him.
 
Zak Forsman said:
not necessarily "period". i've been on at least two sets in the last year where the DP saved the director's ass in terms of coverage. and these are major studio releases i'm talking about, which will remain nameless because i like working.
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Very true, and you know who's job it is to save the Dp's ass? The first AC. lol
 
keep it moving Jay said:
Now I just fired him, giving him an elctric credit if he likes.
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Just remember, if you use footage that he shot as DP, ethically you should give him DP credit as well.

keep it moving Jay said:
Who's gets the last word? Of course it's the director.
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keep it moving Jay said:
If the director says f5 and dp says f4. it's f5 period.
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keep it moving Jay said:
I told him THE DIRECTRO CONTROLS THE SET OUTSIDE OF THE LABLE AND PRODUCERS. A DP COULD GET FIRED FOR THE THINGS YOU'VE DONE.
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keep it moving Jay said:
bottom line is the director hires the DP in most instances. DPs most adpat to on set chnages in vision, period.
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I was very hesitant to say this in my first post for fear that I had come to the wrong conclusion, but now I am a bit more certain; you sound like a bear to work with - very stubborn in your opinions. You may be right about your assessment of this situation, but not everything is set in stone quite like you think it is.
 
Yeah I'm thinking that while you may be right in most of your calls, a little tact could be used. If I were you're DP and you took control of the camera I'd walk out on you. You hired him for a reason, use him and trust him or fire him.
 
IBEJohnson said:
Just remember, if you use footage that he shot as DP, ethically you should give him DP credit as well.


I was very hesitant to say this in my first post for fear that I had come to the wrong conclusion, but now I am a bit more certain; you sound like a bear to work with - very stubborn in your opinions. You may be right about your assessment of this situation, but not everything is set in stone quite like you think it is.
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I'm no bear.:)

what would you do if the dp directed the actors continuously plus lost many of the key shots? Yes, you could talk to him after the fact. first time we've worked together. It will take thousands of dollars to rebuild a set set in an abandon church, china balls, kinos, hmis...

period is out of frustration. If the harmony between director and DP is not one , the film is in jeorpordy.
 
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keep it moving Jay said:
I'm no bear.:)

period is out of frustration. If the harmony between director and DP is not one , the film is in jeorpordy.
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I agree with that statement. I hope I didn't sound insulting, that was not my intention. It's just that you came off rather harsh. It's perfectly acceptable to be frustrated. Like I said, it sounds like you are on track with your concerns. I just wanted to make a point that nothing about filmmaking is that cut and dry.
 
taormina said:
Who paid for the DP?
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we did.

well it's like the rant that DPs have when a gaffer F*** up -- same context. read around and you'll see how many Dps rant about their Gaffers screwing up or not knowing what they should know.
 
filmat11 said:
I suggest you two go lock yourself in a room and work it out before returning to the set. .
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This above comment was clearly from a DP (look at his pic). You dont need to justify a damn thing to this guy, fire him immediately.

However this is something you should have known about him before you started. Always do an extensive interview and reference check on your DP. This is the best crew position for reference checks because a previous director will give you a solid outlook on how the DP works. This guy can make or break your project, so in my opinion this is your own doing. I insure the DP is my best friend by the time we actually begin shooting. We are both on the exact same page because we worked on the shot list together and had a few meetings (lunches) to discuss my expectations.

Lesson learned.
 
alveraz said:
This above comment was clearly from a DP (look at his pic). You dont need to justify a damn thing to this guy, fire him immediately.

I am a DP, and I did not have the benefit of further knowledge of the additional posts when I replied. It's the directors fault for keeping him for as long as he did. I was not aware how far the picture was in production. Finishing the film with this DP or firing him on the spot is certainly a hard call to make. But in this case, as I have read, he (Director) should have taken my suggestion on day one, not several days into shooting.
----------Thanks for thinking I look like a DP.-------Whatever that means...
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