Concert Gig Audio Suggestions

redcap

redcap

Well-known member
So I've been asked to tape a concert on friday. It's short notice so I really can't buy much additional hardware.. this is what I have to work with:

DVX100A
Sen. ME 66 Shotgun mic + 25' cable
Sen Evolution Wireless Lav system (only one lav mic)

I'm going to be getting other cameras to work with, possibly a VX1000 or VX2000, which I know absolutely nothing about, and the owner doesn't know anything either. Having looked at it, I wasn't paying much attention, but it has a flip out LCD screen and 16x9 capabilities so it might be the vx2000. Also I might have access to panasonics teeny 3ccd camera's.. I'm not really worried about the video so much as the audio.. But does anyone know anything about the VX100? I've seen it and it has a sticker on it that says "Digital Progressive"... but does it shoot 30p?

The groups performing are Kulintang Ensembles - meaning loud percussion instruments of brass and drum nature, with three playing sections. Also their will be dancing to accompany this. The performance will be held, I'm thinking, in a somewhat echoy hall (Our local Museum.) Sufficent lighting may be provided, but just incase I'm going to bring my Lowel kit (with four lamps + all the goodies)

My question is, where do I put the mic's? And will the wireless lav mic be useless in this scenario? I don't have a mixer, and I doubt I can get one on such short notice. I seriously doubt that the museum will have a sound system that they will be using since it is a relatively small space and drums are very loud.

I said I'd charge about $150 for the taping of the concert.. hopefully the client can afford it, but $150 dollars, in my opinion, is an extremely low rate for a 3 hour job, but since this is a non-profit organization they have relatively low expectations and might not see the advantage of spending more to allow a higher production value and in turn a superiour product.
 
Bring an XLR and a XLR to 1/4" adaptor and pray you can take a feed from the band's board for audio. that's your best bet for the best sound. Runa feed from the board into ch1 and use your shotgun in ch 2 to pick up ambient room/crowd sounds....

I'd say forget the lights. The band should be lit and your Lowell kit would have to be between the band and crowd to do much good. That ain't gonna work.
 
See if they have a DAT machine that is close to the board and have them tape a DAT tape for you. If your band is really loud then you will have to really turn down your db's in your camera if your capturing the sound into the tape. In addition as for lighting I found it best to try to white balance it when they are in between band setups and have the work lights up then you will have a good idea what to expect. It is really hard to light when most bands are playing... since the lights change a lot. But the DVX in auto mode comes pretty good and recording in dark atmosphere. I did it that way and I used DV rack to really see what is going on and the band members later on said the quality of pix was great and they even commented that my settings were so good in sound that it came out better than the DAT tape from the board. Another note: keep an eye on your viewfinder so there won't be any light flare into the lens. I used a mattebox and a nd.3 filter to cut down the heavy blue and red spotlights .
 
Sirius_Doggy said:
Bring an XLR and a XLR to 1/4" adaptor and pray you can take a feed from the band's board for audio. that's your best bet for the best sound. Runa feed from the board into ch1 and use your shotgun in ch 2 to pick up ambient room/crowd sounds.
Click to expand...

Good advice but since you have 2 cameras, run the board outs into channel 1,2 of your DVX and use the second camera to get crowd noise.

cheers
 
I have done large audience, multi-camera coverage shows before, and I used to use an analog CD Burner with a 74minute or 80minute high quality CD hook strait into the mixing board, then i would use the other camera's natural audio for effect(the live sound of the band mixed with the good quality recording, and crowd level), and the projects have always worked out fine and my clients were always more then satisfied with the audio and coverage.

-Matt-
 
I think everyone has covered it, but my two cents is whatever means possible get audio off of the board, you will be soooo happy you have it later when post comes along.
 
Maybe you guys didn't hear me - their won't be any "board" or anything of that nature. This is not a regular band with amps, they are playing precussion instruments without any electronic or audio circuitry. In otherwords, their won't be a mixing board to tap into.
 
Well now the question is what is the audio equipment that you can get ur hands on, cause whatever you got, your gonna need it. How large is the band(how many instruments), how large is the room, will it have alot of reverb?, How many cameras will you be using, static, dynamic? can you get your hands on an analog mixing board? can you get your hands on something to record the audio from the mixing board? - these factors will help us to help you with the most optimal audio setup you will be able to get

-Matt-
 
I apologize, I asked many questions that you had already answered in your original thread, Ok, since all you have is one boom mic, and a laviler mic, plus the audio from your cameras(which shouldnt be the main source of audio). I suggest a simple mic setup since you have insifficent equipment for the job. I strongly advise you to try and get more mics and a mixer along with a audio recording device, even though I understand it seems unlikely considering your description. But for now I suggest you use the boom mic as your straight shot audio, center it at the middle point of the stage, this will be your fill mic, keep it infront of the audience to capture the most music with the least audience noise or rustling. Next if you can, try to hang the laviler over the band, the london philharmonic does this but with maybe 25 lavilers instead of one. If you cant get a mixer, use either your dvx100a to plug both audio inputs in, or use an xlr Y-adapter that you can buy at radioshaq and hook it into an audio recording device. Then make sure all camera audio is adjusted because you will be needing that audio also.

This is not a recommended setup, but since we are dealing with a small amount of resources, this is what I suggest, I hope this helps somewhat

-Matt-
 
redcap said:
Maybe you guys didn't hear me - their won't be any "board" or anything of that nature. This is not a regular band with amps, they are playing precussion instruments without any electronic or audio circuitry. In otherwords, their won't be a mixing board to tap into.
Click to expand...
Sorry Redcap, rereading your post and I guess my speed reading skills need some work. Eck, no board, well without seeing the room and knowing how many people in the band.

If you could get your hands on another ME66 i'd place them equal distance from eachother on stage or right in front. If you can't get ahold of another one I'd place the one ME66 center in front of the stage. Without a mixer it is kinda tough. I'm no expert on live recording, but with limited resources I can't think of anything better to do.

Good luck
Billy
 
How about putting a lav mic on the stage? Its mostly percussion instruments anyway... and then with the boom down the center, hanging... but I don't know if 25' of cable would be enough..
 
PZM Solution

PZM Solution

Redcap,

Go to Radio Shack and get TWO PZM mics. (Pressure Zone Microphones). If you haven't heard about them, there is plenty of info on the net.

This would solve your problem, you would just need two adapters to go from either 1/4" or 1/8 Mini Male to XLR on the camera, then set your levels accordingly.

Great sound, and two channels. I would not recommend using the ME for your situation, by that's my opinion.
 
ditto cassese. stereo mic with pzm's. some of the best concert audio i've gotten was with a combination of board-feed and pzm's.
 
redcap you may have confused my setup, or maybe im confused with your response, in the case of only having the two mics, hang the laviler(wireless mic) directly above the center point of the band at a height that will pick up the whole band - then have the wired mic directly in front of the stage on a stand facing the center of the band but pushed far back enough that it captures the whole band from the front with the audience still being behind it, then leave the recording device close to the wired mic, plug in the wired mic, and your wireless system hopefully has a good range depending on how far the wireless console is from the mic, plug that in to the recording device also, to make things easier, setup up your DVX for a tight wide shot(static) of the stage and have the wireless and wired mics run directly to that, and then set the other camera audio levels to their best setting for "backup" audio capture - Im curiouse to know how you acually setup the audio and how it turned out given your very hard choice with sparse equipment, keep us updated

-Matt-
 
redcap you may have confused my setup, or maybe im confused with your response, in the case of only having the two mics, hang the laviler(wireless mic) directly above the center point of the band at a height that will pick up the whole band - then have the wired mic directly in front of the stage on a stand facing the center of the band but pushed far back enough that it captures the whole band from the front with the audience still being behind it, then leave the recording device close to the wired mic, plug in the wired mic, and your wireless system hopefully has a good range depending on how far the wireless console is from the mic, plug that in to the recording device also, to make things easier, setup up your DVX for a tight wide shot(static) of the stage and have the wireless and wired mics run directly to that, and then set the other camera audio levels to their best setting for "backup" audio capture - Im curiouse to know how you acually setup the audio and how it turned out given your very hard choice with sparse equipment, keep us updated

-Matt-
 
After speaking with the musicians they told me they have never used Mic's for concerts ever. They told me the music they play is designed to be played outside in an open field type setting, and that when they play indoors they aren't mic'ed because the sound coming from the instruments is loud as is.

That being said, I'll probably just aim to reduce the background noise as much as I can and try and find locations for the mic that won't be distracting to the audience, and I'll probably be reducing the level as low as it'll go to avoid clipping... FYI - they're playing large metal instruments (gong and xylophone type stuff.) I'll put something up in the "screen grabs" forum when I get done.

Perhaps eventually I'll be making a documentary 20-40 mintutes in length about the group and the native song and dance of the specific area in the phillipines which, currently, is not very well known... but with any luck will be.
 
ultimately, if your budget situation changes, this is the type of thing that you'd probably want to do with a nice matched set of small diaphragm condensers, omni or cardioid.
 
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