Compressor and image quality

D

drjrt

Member
The image quality of the mp4 files that are created from my
FCP project by Compressor are noticably poorer quality than
what I see in the FCP Viewer or other mp4's created from
another source. Am I doing something wrong?

Specifically, this is SD NTSC 4:3 24p (I think) from DVX100.
The same footage run through my PC, Pinnacle
Studio, written to a DVD and then extracted to my Mac using
Handbrake into an mp4 looks noticably better than the same clip
in FCP exported using Compressor using the MPEG-4 setting.

Any thoughts?

Thank you.
 
Are you going to dvd?

If so why not just use the Best Quality settings? Make them mpeg-2.

If you are going for an internet version you may want to use a different program than compressor, or make them into h.264's instead of mpeg4
 
I've had no problems exporting from FCP to .mov files using the MPEG4 compression. What I do is:

Export Quicktime w/ Conversion
Select the Cable/DSL setting in the dropdown window.
Go into options if you need to tweak size or streaming settings
Export

This gives you a .mov file so if you need to have an.mp4 then maybe try this same method using the convert to MPEG4.

Steve
 
Thanks for everyone's input. I'm going to DVD. This is my first project
with the DVX100 and I hate to see the pretty image quality go to pot.

I will play with your suggestions.

BTW how do you learn these things - trial and error?

The manual helps, some....
 
If you are going to dvd...

Export a self contained quicktime of your movie(uncompressed ie normal dv compressed).

Open Compressor. Drag this quicktime file into compressor.

Click onto the preset buttons and select best quality for whatever time length the film is.

Click submit. This should get you the best looking compression you can get from compressor.

Mpeg-2 is still the industry standard for dvd, and should be read on most dvd players compared to anything else.

(side note - chose Dolby 2.0 for audio. Regular PCM really doesn't compress at all and takes up a lot of space. Dolby creates .AC3 files which are way smaller than .aiff's which leaves way more space on your dvd's for other stuff.)
 
I hate being so dense but:

In FCP Choose: File->Export->QuickTime Movie

Under settings choose: Uncompressed 10bit NTSC?

I also tried the MPEG-2 and the image is MUCH better.
 
You know what... someone smarter than me should probably answer that one.

I just set the film's RT to it's top settings(dynamic for both), then click export - quicktime movie, then under settings just leave it as current settings.

Maybe uncompressed 10bitntsc is a better way to go, but I'm just not that informed.
 
OK, this is what I've discovered. I used the same clip and did several conversions and eventually compared them using the QT viewer or in DVD Studio. This is purely subjective but there were some clear differences.

First I did the following:

FCP->export to QTM (using presets setting) -> DVD Studio
FCP->export to QTM (using Uncomp 10bit setting) -> DVD Studio
FCP->export to QTM (using DV NTSC setting) -> DVD Studio

Of these three the Uncompressed 10 bit setting was a little sharper image.
The other two were very close. There wasn't a whole lot of difference, though.


Next I did the following:

FCP->export to QTM (using presets setting) -> Compressor -> DVD Studio
FCP->export to QTM (using Uncomp 10bit setting) -> Compressor -> DVD Studio
FCP->export to QTM (using DV NTSC setting) -> Compressor -> DVD Studio

where I used the "DVD:Best Quality" setting in Compressor

Here there was a definite difference - the "Presets" and "DV NTSC" were clearly
better than the "Uncomp 10bit". And these two looked much better after having
gone through Compressor, as compared to taking them from the QuickTime Movie
format and dropping them into Studio

Lastly, I exported from FCP through Compressor using the "DVD:Best Quality" setting
without going through the QTM step.

Basically, it looked the same as the "QTM with Presets" and "QTM with DV NTSC" settings. All of these looked much better then going through Compressor to MPEG-4 and then to DVD Studio.

So, it appears that exporting from FCP directly into Compressor and skipping the step of exporting to a QTM gives the same result and skips an un-necessary step(?).
Also looks like I will continue to use the "DVD:Best Quality" setting for my DVD work.

This is probably a"duh" for everyone, but was a useful exercise for me!
 
My next goal is to find out the best quality format to pull from a DVD.
The MPEG-4 that I got with DVDxDV looked pretty good, or should
I be ripping the DVD to an MPEG-2?
 
Okay, here is what you should be doing for DVD. Let's assume you are working with a DV sequence.

File:Export:Quicktime Movie (Not Quicktime with Conversion). Old versions of FCP used to call this Final Cut Movie.

In the drop down boxes "Use current settings", "Video and Audio", Don't make self contained movie(if you want to save space)

Import into Compressor. If you have shot in 24P you MUST create a new preset for this. I can give you all the settings you should use if need be. But you must tell compressor it's 24P. I would suggest always creating your won presets even if you are not shooting 24P. There are some tweaks you can do to gain quality.

If after doing this you are still not happy with quality you must choose another encoder (Bitvise is a good one on Mac, Procoder and others on PC).

Steve
 
Oh, and always encode audio in AC3 digital. It's a very efficient codec to keep audio files small and bit rates low. Need to use the right settings in that as well. So feel free to ask if you have questions.

Steve
 
Steve, I don't think you need to create a new preset for 24p... I may be wrong on this, and please feel free to correct me.

When I go to compress my 24p sequence it tells me that it is making a progressive mpeg-2 at 23.98. That's after selecting a preset.(I am using final cut 5 and the newest version of compressor.)

drjt - reason I export the movie first then import into compressor is strictly from reading Grame Natress's article on working with 24p. He said that in order for compressor to recognize that the movie is 24p it needs to be it's own file(or something like that). With the newer versions of programs this may not be necessary... I just usually stick with what works well for me.

Also, I'm mostly working on my powerbook. I've noticed that if I compress the video and audio seperately the program works way faster.
 
New version of Compressor may have a preset for 24P. In Compressor 1 you needed to create one. It has one for MPEG4 24P but not MPEG2 24P. Again, I create my own presets because there are times when I want to use Open GOP and times when I need to use closed GOP, things like that.

In new version of Compressor you can bring exported quicktime movie into Compressor and encode your MPEG2 and AC3 file simultaneously which is why it makes sense to export with audio and video as one file. In older versions, A.pack was separate application so export video and audio separately.

I think the things to make sure of is that you are not exporting to some form of quicktime conversion first and then importing that into Compressor. By exporting Quicktime Movie in FCP it's as clean as you can get it because it is not doing any conversion to the file.

One thing that I have done is if I'm working in DV but have a lot of graphics to add, I'll edit in DV and then do my finalizing in an uncompressed sequence and use a plugin that Graemme Nattress puts out called Nicer which smooths out the Chroma when going from 4:1:1 to 4:2:2. I'll then export from there and encode to MPEG2. I tend to use Bitvise for my MPEG2 encoding but occasionally I will use Compressor.

Does this all make sense. Hopefully I'm not confusing matters here.

Steve
 
And when you import a quicktime movie directly into DVD Studio Pro it encodes it based on settings that you make in the preferences. You may already know that but just wanted to point it out in case you didn't know how it determined what bit rates to use within DVDSP.

Steve
 
Thank you!

Compressor appears to have Presets for HD 24p under Advanced Format, but
not for DV.

I will eventually be using 24p so if you could point me towords a referrence for the Compressor Preset settings, I would appreciate it.

I found the presets for the DVDSP but assumed the max bitrate of 7MB/S exceeded what SD needs.

What does DVDSP use internally? That is,when I import assests such as MPEG-2, MPEG-4, QTM, etc how does it manipulate the content in viewers, etc. Does it codec on
the fly or convert everything to QTM while you work with it?
 
So, for 24P material this is what I do. The quality settings will depend how much material you need to fit on DVD. I've also included DVDSP Preference window where you can change the encoding quality for various elements that you bring into DVDSP such as quicktime movies for buttons, etc. And I've included the APack settings for AC3 encoding.

Compressor24P.jpg

Quality.jpg

GOP.jpg

Summary.jpg

DVDSPEncoding.jpg

APackScreen1.jpg

APackScreen2.jpg

APackScreen3.jpg
 
Thanks for the screen shots.

I've configured the custom settings for 24p, although I apparently have
a slightly different version (newer?). Everything looks the same
except under Geometry the Pixel Aspect Ration is set to "NTSC CCIR 601/DV"
and not 1.125 - I don't know if this is a big deal or not.

Otherwise I was able to navigate around OK. I have changed my preferences
in DVDSP, too.

I'm still not sure the best (image quality wise) way to get video off of a DVD.
I have some older "stuff" I'm trying to pull off of a DVD we had made on our
PC system to cut up in FCP. I've tried StreamClip, DVDxDV, and HandBrake
and am experimenting with different settings. Any preferences that you have?

Thanks again. My son is working with a friend to develop a exercise and social skills training video for children with Aspergers Syndrome as part of research project for HS (probably more like a college level activity!). He's been overloaded with school work so I've been trying to figure out our (brand new) Mac/FCP setup and everyones help has been invaluable to reduce my learning curve.
 
I highly recommend MPEG Streamclip. It has done the trick for me. The great thing about it is you get to select how you want it transcoded. I usually select either Quicktime with DV/NTSC setting or sometimes a higher resolution codec if need be. But I've had good results with it.

Your pixel setting is correct CCIR 601/DV.

Steve
 
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