Combo stands direct from China?

I

IronFilm

Veteran
As I already do sound seriously, I'd like to get into the lucrative career of sound gripping, thus looking at grip gear to get... specifically these combo stands on Aliexpress (sorry, I can't afford anything better on my $10/day rate!). Anybody tried them before, what do they think of them?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4m-...t-2k-5k-HMI-Compact-Par-1-2k/32265490574.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PRO...-for-Spotlight-5K-HMI-4K-M40/32796936968.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4m-...t-2k-5k-HMI-Compact-Par-1-2k/32596647221.html
 
I agree with Eric, why buy Chinese unknown quality and unknown steel origin when you can buy name brand stuff that is a known commodity with actual warranty and service? Steel two and three risers often have big and heavy lights mounted that often costs a LOT of money. A baby pin snapping off or a tie down knob failing could be expensive and dangerous. Also, if you are going professional with your gripping, perception is everything in you getting hired, producers and keys want to see name brand equipment, not a bunch of Chinese knock off stuff. These are sorts of stands should last you your entire career so buy quality, Matthews, American Grip, Norms, not no name, knock offs from Chinese Ebay. My .02
 
IronFilm said:
Because not everyone in the world lives in the USA.

B&H shipping to my location will almost double the price.
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Also, Avenger is not GREAT grip gear. It's okay grip gear, about on par with Kupo, which is name Chinese that is still a notch up the ladder from the no name stuff, IMHO. The brands I named are what Hollywood uses, for a reason. Once in a while you'll see a piece that is specialized but much more typically Matthews and American. I see Norms C-Stands sometimes too on big sets. From my experience, Avenger is much more popular with still photographers who typically are not nearly as rough on gear as a crew of union grips working off of a truck. Same with stuff like Scrim Jim. I love the Scrim Jims, they are lightweight, not that expensive and work well for certain things. But a Scrim Jim would last about ten minutes on most Hollywood sets, those crews are rough on their gear. Scrim Jims are for you and me, owner/operators who mostly control who touches their gear.
 
Those prices don't seem all that great, even disregarding shipping. I'd avoid no-name generic grip gear because I'd think the handles, bolts, and nuts might not last all that long. Good grip stuff lasts forever. I bought my c-stands for US$50 each from a local lighting house that was clearing out some older stands that weren't aesthetically perfect...Matthews and Norms...that was 15 or so years ago. Got many of my Matthews light kit stands when I bought a nice LTM Peppers light kit at an auction...20 years ago? All still going strong. And if I had to sell any of the stuff, I'd probably get about what I paid for it.

So pay a little more now for reliability, long-life, and safety. Considering the life of the equipment, the cost difference will equal maybe six cheap cups of coffee/tea per year. And see if your local NZ (right?) lighting & grip houses have any older stands for sale...

Buy once, cry once.
 
puredrifting said:
Also, Avenger is not GREAT grip gear. It's okay grip gear, about on par with Kupo, which is name Chinese that is still a notch up the ladder from the no name stuff, IMHO. The brands I named are what Hollywood uses, for a reason. Once in a while you'll see a piece that is specialized but much more typically Matthews and American. I see Norms C-Stands sometimes too on big sets. From my experience, Avenger is much more popular with still photographers who typically are not nearly as rough on gear as a crew of union grips working off of a truck. Same with stuff like Scrim Jim. I love the Scrim Jims, they are lightweight, not that expensive and work well for certain things. But a Scrim Jim would last about ten minutes on most Hollywood sets, those crews are rough on their gear. Scrim Jims are for you and me, owner/operators who mostly control who touches their gear.
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In defense of film crews, it isn't so much that they are rough on their gear ( that makes it sound as if they are unprofessional and needlessly abusive ) but that they use gear in extreme situations and they tend to use the best kit because they want to minimize the chances of equipment failure. A Scrim-Jim isn't going to stand up to very high winds. And because a film crew has the sufficient number of folks to haul gear around- in addition to stake-bed trucks and gators- they don't much care about portability, unsuspended weight, or compact-ability. They'd rather use the super-beefy, super sturdy gear and have to lug it around than dick around with kit that is lighter weight but also more flimsy as a result. They have tractor trailers for their gear. They have plenty of space to store and haul gear. So they don't much care how small something breaks down into. The priority is on strength and durability.

Often the Key Grip owns the grip gear and the Gaffer owns the lighting gear. A Grip or Electrician who is rough or abusive with their gear isn't going to last very long.

I think it more equitable to say that the conditions of feature films are rough on gear. Rain, snow, wind, extreme cold, extreme heat, mud, sand, humidity, etc. Which is likely what PureD meant.

Back to the OP- I say stretch the budget to get the reputable sh*t. You'll have it for as long as you remain in the biz. And it is also a safety thing. You don't want an overhead to fall on the talent as a result of your being a cheapskate who purchased jenky Chinese stands.


 
JPNola said:
In defense of film crews, it isn't so much that they are rough on their gear ( that makes it sound as if they are unprofessional and needlessly abusive ) but that they use gear in extreme situations and they tend to use the best kit because they want to minimize the chances of equipment failure. A Scrim-Jim isn't going to stand up to very high winds. And because a film crew has the sufficient number of folks to haul gear around- in addition to stake-bed trucks and gators- they don't much care about portability, unsuspended weight, or compact-ability. They'd rather use the super-beefy, super sturdy gear and have to lug it around than dick around with kit that is lighter weight but also more flimsy as a result. They have tractor trailers for their gear. They have plenty of space to store and haul gear. So they don't much care how small something breaks down into. The priority is on strength and durability.

Often the Key Grip owns the grip gear and the Gaffer owns the lighting gear. A Grip or Electrician who is rough or abusive with their gear isn't going to last very long.

I think it more equitable to say that the conditions of feature films are rough on gear. Rain, snow, wind, extreme cold, extreme heat, mud, sand, humidity, etc. Which is likely what PureD meant.

Back to the OP- I say stretch the budget to get the reputable sh*t. You'll have it for as long as you remain in the biz. And it is also a safety thing. You don't want an overhead to fall on the talent as a result of your being a cheapskate who purchased jenky Chinese stands.


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I was speaking more from my own experience more so when I hire grips and gaffers than union people on sets. I have a three ton package and find that over a year, when me and my two or three regular guys use the stuff, it all makes it back to where it was supposed to go, stingers are wound correctly, accessories, tie wraps and scrims are in the right scrim bags, etc. We rarely break things but it does happen. When my G&L stuff has gone to work on bigger productions where my package was just a part of the whole shebang, I have had stuff actually broken, always stuff missing, stuff not put away correctly, just my experience and the cost of doing business. I agree with you that the pro crews are not abusing stuff but they are often USING it hard, especially the grips in rigging weird setups like crash cams, or placing things on set, rigging cameras, lights and light control in places where they normally should not be. Or stuff like putting C-stands and sandbags in the ocean, those are not things the average owner op will do that Hollywood crews have to do all of the time. I agree, though, it is rare to see grips and gaffers actually abuse gear, but it does seem to wear out a lot quicker than when I, the one who paid for it, is using it.
 
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What good is saving a few bucks on a cheap stand when it fails and the expensive lighting instrument on it, that cost several times what the stand did, comes crashing down and breaks and then it's out of commission, plus the repair bill?

Once you start getting a step or two above "kit stands", you're talking about some heavy-duty, industrial strength $h!t from the major grip manufacturers. The forces being exerted by some the gear we fly is pretty large. You want it supported well.
 
puredrifting said:
Also, Avenger is not GREAT grip gear. It's okay grip gear, about on par with Kupo, which is name Chinese that is still a notch up the ladder from the no name stuff, IMHO. The brands I named are what Hollywood uses, for a reason. Once in a while you'll see a piece that is specialized but much more typically Matthews and American. I see Norms C-Stands sometimes too on big sets. From my experience, Avenger is much more popular with still photographers who typically are not nearly as rough on gear as a crew of union grips working off of a truck. Same with stuff like Scrim Jim. I love the Scrim Jims, they are lightweight, not that expensive and work well for certain things. But a Scrim Jim would last about ten minutes on most Hollywood sets, those crews are rough on their gear. Scrim Jims are for you and me, owner/operators who mostly control who touches their gear.
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PureDrifting

I have got to disagree with you on Avenger C-Stands and grips heads. I own both Mathews and Avenger and I reach for the Avengers every time. I don't have any reference on bigger commercial stands. Of course, YMMV.

Grant
 
Guy I work with a lot has Matthews and Avengers stands and also says Avenger are better, with the Matthews sometimes having issues. Said he's done buying Matthews stands.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
Guy I work with a lot has Matthews and Avengers stands and also says Avenger are better, with the Matthews sometimes having issues. Said he's done buying Matthews stands.
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I have Matthews and avenger c stands too and I'm the opposite. You can loosen the Matthews stands and the legs fall into place, the avengers legs need to be moved to the right position. It's not like there's any real speed difference, they're just slightly easier to open. Avengers are more heavy duty but like the speed thing it's sort of negligible because you're only (or should be only) putting things of a certain size on c stands anyway.

To the OP I'm out of the loop re NZ film Equipment retailers but I'd at least go with kupo, otherwise eat the extra shipping costs for a more reputable brand. What about used?
 
https://tinyurl.com/ljzevtb The 2nd link you posted is an exact copy of the kupo brand. I have 2 and they are pretty solid. I put a huge old school 1200 arri fresnel on them all the time with no worries. I think they are fine if youre trying to save a few bucks. I 2nd the Matthews along with Rob.

edit. If you zoom in on the 2nd pic you can see the kupo name stamped on the head.
 
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I've seen more than my share of failure of Chinese made hardware that I'd spend the extra for name brand proven gear. Especially where your lifting 30-50lb fixtures in the air.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
Guy I work with a lot has Matthews and Avengers stands and also says Avenger are better, with the Matthews sometimes having issues. Said he's done buying Matthews stands.
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I've owned Avenger stands, they are okay but nothing special, you don't see them on TV and feature sets much and I usually see them with someone whose grip package consists of three C-stands or with still photographers. Not sure if the new ones still have them, but my Avengers had that cheesy Rubber/plastic grip cover thing over the tie down knowb and those suck, they get torn up and eaten away eventually and you have to replace them. Personally I prefer Norms, I have a dozen 40" Norms C-stands in my package, they are better than the Avenger or Matthews, but I was just relating to what Hollywood uses. If you go to the 5-15 ton trucks, you are going to see American Grip stands typically, they are a notch above everything else on the market and they cost more too. The tie down handle is shaped more ergonomically and the they feel smoother when you crank down on them, easier to release once you have cranked down on them and are adjusting or undoing a flag. Personally I despise any C-stand where you have to manually fold out the legs, those suck, I need free wheeling legs that I can quickly rotate into place while holding the stand in the air. The older gen Matthews were not as good as the newer ones, I have two of the Gen II 20" Gary Colemans and they are really nice, nicer than my Norms 20" models.

I own four American Grip steel Beefy Babys, they are my best light stands by far, they are built so much nicer than my mostly aluminum Matthews and Norms light stands. I have half aluminum and half steel. Aluminum is fine for saving weight but when you are going to go high with heavy instruments, steel is the way to go. Also, dont forget, C-stand preferences are different than light stand and heavy rigging preferences on most trucks. Few owners just buy all one brand for everything, they select the tool that is best for the job. If I was starting over, I would spend the extra money for the American Grip, they are superior to anything else I have seen or used over the years.

A bit off topic, but for me, the acid test for anyone who says they have worked in production is to see them unfold and deploy, then fold up a C-stand. If you have worked production, it should take perhaps 3-4 seconds to do either. Typically though, you get people who struggle with undoing the legs, turn the stand upside down to manually fold out the legs, don't understand how the leg locks are correctly staggered, don't understand about knob direction and weight when deploying the arm. When they put them away, they will face the tie down knobs in the wrong directions, fail to tighten down the knobs tight enough, then they will try to pick up and carry two or three stands and the arms will flail open. It's very entertaining. The other acid test is to wind up a stinger. If you can't wind up a stinger correctly, you probably have not worked in production much.
 
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Eric Coughlin said:
Guy I work with a lot has Matthews and Avengers stands and also says Avenger are better, with the Matthews sometimes having issues. Said he's done buying Matthews stands.
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Opinion will vary with the individual, but I concur with PureD on Norms and American. I've had more than one Key Grip say that American is the best.

Regardless of the brand, periodic maintenance on these stands is necessary to keep them working right. It usn't uncommon to see a Grip doing some quick maintenance on stands during slow periods on a film set.

I just happen to be a brand guy. I'll pay more just to have the brand name and the appearence of professionalism / confidence in the gear. To me the off-brands say "cheap" to others. Like you have yet really make it in the biz. "Cam Gear" tripods and some "Like ARRI!" fresnels purchased off eBay. And a homemade camera slider you constructed with instructions found in a "Cheeseycam" article.

The best use the best.
 
JPNola said:
Opinion will vary with the individual, but I concur with PureD on Norms and American. I've had more than one Key Grip say that American is the best.
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I concur. Every grip and grip truck owner I have hired has either complained that the gear wasn't American or had American Grip. If you make your living with this stuff, you want the best and what is proven to work consistently, day in and day out. And it's not Avenger or Kupo.
 
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