Color correction guy turns in unusable work, what would you do?

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mr_goodbomb

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I posted a topic a month or two back about a color correction guy that was hell to work with. He turned in the cut late, we didn't have it in time for a premiere, etc etc. He was just awful.

He finally mailed me the DVD, our DP and our producer got to watch it. They said it's unusable. We had intended to take it to DVD pressing this month, but with this, that's out of the question. It's a major setback, and of everyone on set or in post production, this guy was paid the highest of anyone and let us down the most.

What would you do in this situation?
 
What can you do unless there was some sort of contracted quality clause?

I suppose it goes without saying, but never hire him again.
 
Unusable as in it's an awful mess that has to be completely redone, or unusable in that it has some elements that don't pass QC?

If it's the former, you need to find somebody else to do the work.

If it's the latter, you need to talk to him about fixing the bad spots.
 
A "Color Correction Guy", as you put it, sounds like somebody that bought FCS and self proclaimed his skill set with the art of color correction. Who was responsible for hiring the "Color Correction Guy"? Did someone recommend this guy for the job? Did anyone check his references?
 
I certainly won't be working with him again. About halfway through working with him, I decided that, because he was a real jerk, and after not turning in a cut on time or listening to me when I told him it'd take a while to render and he needed to render it out at least 2 days before the event, I knew I ABSOLUTELY wouldn't come near him again.

I have yet to see it, but they said it's extremely inconsistent shot-to-shot, he clearly worked entirely off presets, and many shots are too dark to be usable or even visibel, especially without ethnic actors. I wouldn't trust this guy to "fix" anything anymore, if he thinks that's passable.

milksac said:
A "Color Correction Guy", as you put it, sounds like somebody that bought FCS and self proclaimed his skill set with the art of color correction. Who was responsible for hiring the "Color Correction Guy"? Did someone recommend this guy for the job? Did anyone check his references?
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I met him at a festival promoting the film at an event. He's an author, as well, as was selling his book, and offered assistance (he offered his services to ME, I didn't ask). So, when the time came, he was my first call. I saw some of the work he had done before, and it was pretty alright, but he's an older guy, he's pretty behind on the times (does all of his visual effects work in photoshop at frame at a time, for example, rather than using After Effects, runs on a PC, I'd say his newest piece of software is from 2005 or earlier, and he got realy tempermental about downloading and filesharing the files and eventually demanded I bring him a physical copy of everything). This is low budget film, we couldn't afford any of the "professionals" that came our way because they wanted a few hundred to thousands per scene, and the film as a whole was maybe $5-10k. He was just a guy eager to do the work that had some decent stuff to show for it. He was personable and friendly, at first, until we started putting actual weight on his shoulders.
 
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mr_goodbomb said:
I posted a topic a month or two back about a color correction guy that was hell to work with. He turned in the cut late, we didn't have it in time for a premiere, etc etc. He was just awful.

He finally mailed me the DVD, our DP and our producer got to watch it. They said it's unusable. We had intended to take it to DVD pressing this month, but with this, that's out of the question. It's a major setback, and of everyone on set or in post production, this guy was paid the highest of anyone and let us down the most.

What would you do in this situation?
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I'd like to ask, without meaning offense, was nobody supervising the work? It sounds like the guy was off working on his own the whole time....

What I would suggest is that you find someone new to do the work, starting over from the beginning. But this time, stay on top of the work. Meet with this new person daily to review the work that's been done and go over any changes that are needed in that work right then and there.

A month or two ago when you posted the first topic (do you have a link?) you probably should have fired him.

Did you have a contract? If so, can you post it here? A lot will depend on what the two of you agreed to.
 
keylight said:
I'd like to ask, without meaning offense, was nobody supervising the work? It sounds like the guy was off working on his own the whole time....

What I would suggest is that you find someone new to do the work, starting over from the beginning. But this time, stay on top of the work. Meet with this new person daily to review the work that's been done and go over any changes that are needed in that work right then and there.

A month or two ago when you posted the first topic (do you have a link?) you probably should have fired him.

Did you have a contract? If so, can you post it here? A lot will depend on what the two of you agreed to.
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Also, shouldn't the Director & DP be in the sessions with the Colorist? They shot the film and should know what they want the Colorist to deliver.
 
keylight said:
I'd like to ask, without meaning offense, was nobody supervising the work? It sounds like the guy was off working on his own the whole time....

What I would suggest is that you find someone new to do the work, starting over from the beginning. But this time, stay on top of the work. Meet with this new person daily to review the work that's been done and go over any changes that are needed in that work right then and there.

A month or two ago when you posted the first topic (do you have a link?) you probably should have fired him.

Did you have a contract? If so, can you post it here? A lot will depend on what the two of you agreed to.
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No offense taken. We were in a real bind, we had been screwed before, and this guy was eager. I was originally going to supervise him often, but as the original premiere event got closer and closer, I had less and less time, and he had little to show me each time. Eventually I told him "just get it done" after talking extensively about how each segment should "look" (it was divided into 5 segment, so there's basically 5 "looks" to the film).

The issue now is money and time. We really were aiming for a DVD release at the end of the month, but that's impossible now. The other issue is money: we paid him more than anyone else, and he's run away with the money and, judging from what I've heard, did little work to get it.

A month or two ago, I simply told him, "mail in the finished product whenever you get it done, thanks." He asked me to come see it, but he's a good distance away, and he refused to go anywhere despite the pay. At this point, I'm quite glad I didn't visit. Any criticism was always met with harsh response, and usually ended with me saying "fine, it's ok, no worries." By then, he had the money (he had half the money when he started, and half when he started rendering the project out for the premiere, so by the time the deadline wasn't met, he was paid in full, anyway).

We didn't have a contract. I know much better now, but the payment was fairly small and the terms, other than the deadline, fairly lax. However, he seems to have done very poor work, didn't meet the deadline, and still has the money. I guess there's not much accounting for "quality."
 
agcohn said:
Also, shouldn't the Director & DP be in the sessions with the Colorist? They shot the film and should know what they want the Colorist to deliver.
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I appreciate your responses, and I agree, but as I just explained in my last response (you responded prior to my posting it, so no worries), I was originally there for all the preliminary work and discussion, we went over every aspect of the film, and he was supposed to send me samples, but he never did. He was just incredibly difficult to work with and, on the timeline we were on, being as late to do the work as he was, and being that we couldn't have possibly got someone else on our budget in time to replace him, there basically were no sessions. He was running extremely behind.

Here's the original thread.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...with-post-production-editor-what-would-you-do
 
The situation with this guy most likely will never change.

Your question what would I do? Forget him and get to looking for another way to get what you need done, done.
 
I don't expect the situation to improve with this fella. At all. I'm certain of that.

I guess a solid question is, would anyone else here willingly let him walk away with your money having turned in unservicable work past the due date having been such a pain to work with to that point? Would you pursue your money back?
 
I don't know if you have much recourse for getting your money back, as you said you didn't have a contract with him.

You would have to take him to small claims court and prove from emails and / or other recorded communications that he intentionally deceived you about his abilities and took your money without delivering on his promises to you.

Do you have a reel from him showing significantly better work that you saw in the product he delivered to you? And if so, did he promise similar results to you, which he didn't deliver?

I think that would be your only chance of getting your money back, because it sounds like he did the work you paid him for... he just wasn't very good at it.
 
I assume that, after the premiere passed and he knew we weren't pressed for the work anymore, and when I seemed less and less interested in working with him, he just threw something together, knowing I'd probably just take it to get away from him and he'd get to keep the money.

I guess the question would be, would you mention a refund or partial refund to him? A also paid through PayPal, and I'm wondering if there's any recourse there. I've gotten refunds through PayPal, and they may assist me, but I'm just wondering if I should even start this battle with him.

EDIT: I called PayPal to see what my options were. They said I was 5 days from the 45 day limit of disputes, so I filed as per their recommendations. I'll get back $175 of it if he doesn't put up a huge fight, and I suppose he can keep $75 just for doing... something. His name certainly is staying off the credits now, however.
 
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mr_goodbomb said:
I don't expect the situation to improve with this fella. At all. I'm certain of that.

I guess a solid question is, would anyone else here willingly let him walk away with your money having turned in unservicable work past the due date having been such a pain to work with to that point? Would you pursue your money back?
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Honestly, it depends on how much money is at issue. You've said both, "we paid him more than anyone else" and "but the payment was fairly small" which leads me to believe this was an ultra low budget production and you're talking a few hundred dollars. I would talk with him and see if he'll agree to refund at least a portion of the money. If he won't, then just chalk as the price you paid to learn what not to do next time.

Without a contract the terms will be your word vs. his if you sue. On the quality it'll be down to subjective opinions. And since you've already said you didn't have time to supervise and took a hands off approach, it'll be hard for you to overcome a defense of, "I tried to get his input but he didn't have time for me, so I did what I could on my own." I think you would have a very hard time winning.

So ask for a partial refund and then move on. You still have to find someone new to redo the work. And next time use a contract and be sure to stay on top of the new guy's work. And like agcohn said, your Director and DP should be involved too.

Good luck.
 
keylight said:
Honestly, it depends on how much money is at issue. You've said both, "we paid him more than anyone else" and "but the payment was fairly small" which leads me to believe this was an ultra low budget production and you're talking a few hundred dollars. I would talk with him and see if he'll agree to refund at least a portion of the money. If he won't, then just chalk as the price you paid to learn what not to do next time.

Without a contract the terms will be your word vs. his if you sue. On the quality it'll be down to subjective opinions. And since you've already said you didn't have time to supervise and took a hands off approach, it'll be hard for you to overcome a defense of, "I tried to get his input but he didn't have time for me, so I did what I could on my own." I think you would have a very hard time winning.

So ask for a partial refund and then move on. You still have to find someone new to redo the work. And next time use a contract and be sure to stay on top of the new guy's work. And like agcohn said, your Director and DP should be involved too.

Good luck.
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Yes, it was a few hundred. Hopefully PayPal will assist in getting some back. By "more than anyone else" I mean he was paid up front. The actors were unpaid, looking for a lead role in a feature that expected to be released, the crew was very small, mainly myself, the producer, a practical effects/makeup artist (who also got a producer's credit), and the DP (who only served when the setups were difficult or handheld/steadicam was needed). In post production, we had an excellent composer, who worked for a smaller amount and continues to contribute. Everyone else worked for high level credits, a percentage, and out of affection for the genre. We're all very proud of the film, but this has been the biggest snag.


Honestly, I don't even want to discuss it with him. I spoke to the DP about it, he said it was entirely unacceptable. The biggest issue is nothing is consistent, which isn't subjective. From shot to shot in the same scene, because he work he did was so drastic and overbearing (preset filters, it seems), the shots that needed a bit of matching are even more obvious, and those that did match prior don't now. Aside from that, he said every scene has completely unusable shots in it. Some shots are entirely too dark, to the point where characters aren't visible. On a more artistic level, he said everything appears as if it was done with the basic harsh presets in photoshop, the kind of stuff that a high school aged photographer would do and think was acceptable. I assume he did it just to say he obviously did SOMETHING, and if we disliked it on a subjective level, so be it.

I was there to supervise until the last few days before the event itself. He basically tried to crush weeks of work, where I was frequently visiting to discuss and take a look at his "samples" though he was never actually doing work on the project, in a few days before the event. He never asked me to come look, and despite my asking for them via email, he never sent me samples.

Mind you, I am the director, and as I said several times, I was involved as frequently as possible, until he claimed to have the project done but didn't have it rendered out in time for the event, which is when he should have had it finished. He said it was done, but continued to muddle with it for a month or more (the event was on the 29th of March), and just recently got to burning it to DVD and mailing it. After the event, when he just wanted to show me the finished product for my approval, I said "I'm not interested in traveling to see if, just mail it me." I was the DP for probably 80% of the film, and the DP for more complicated shots and setups came to the first meeting, and disliked dealing with the guy to the point that he asked that I take the reigns. At that point, we were so desperate for the work that we worked with him, despite his attitude and inability to take direction, because we needed the work done, even if rough, for that premiere. He promised us that it'd be ready for DVD after his work was done. I'm going to go snag a copy of the DVD later tonight and check it out myself.
 
mr_goodbomb said:
I called PayPal to see what my options were. They said I was 5 days from the 45 day limit of disputes, so I filed as per their recommendations. I'll get back $175 of it if he doesn't put up a huge fight, and I suppose he can keep $75 just for doing... something. His name certainly is staying off the credits now, however.
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You paid [?] $175.00 +/- for CC work to be done and you're surprised with the results?

You just spent $175.00 on a lesson for yourself.

Leave the guy alone, and consider it a cheap learning experience.

PP will consider his supplying you a final product to be a completed transaction btw.
 
I've had similar problems. It's the sort of issues you run into on a really low budget.

Here's the thing I've learnt: Even if you've got a great person doing the editing and CC, who's easy to get along with, talented and everything, you need to be there and supervise so you get the right tone in every scene. That goes for editing, CC, sound, everything in post. You can't not micro manage sometimes.
The trick is knowing when you should and shouldn't do it.

When you're on a low budget, you can't really choose who you're working with either.

If you have to do it over again, you have to do it.

Also, this is why I recommend not spending only $10,000 on making a feature length film.
 
Pookie said:
You paid [?] $175.00 +/- for CC work to be done and you're surprised with the results?

You just spent $175.00 on a lesson for yourself.

Leave the guy alone, and consider it a cheap learning experience.

PP will consider his supplying you a final product to be a completed transaction btw.
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At my age, on my budget, with my income, $175 isn't throw-away. I appreciate your comments, but not everyone is in the same financial or professional boat as you. And according to the PayPal representative, "not as described" is quantified by discussing the product, not getting the same product as discussed, and having a physical item with which that content was delivered on (DVD).

Mind you, if you failed to read, $175 was the second half of the payment, but I'm sure with the way you presented your opinion, that makes little difference.
 
Jawa Ex Machina said:
I've had similar problems. It's the sort of issues you run into on a really low budget.

Here's the thing I've learnt: Even if you've got a great person doing the editing and CC, who's easy to get along with, talented and everything, you need to be there and supervise so you get the right tone in every scene. That goes for editing, CC, sound, everything in post. You can't not micro manage sometimes.
The trick is knowing when you should and shouldn't do it.

When you're on a low budget, you can't really choose who you're working with either.

If you have to do it over again, you have to do it.

Also, this is why I recommend not spending only $10,000 on making a feature length film.
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I really do appreciate your comments. I edited the film, but my color work isn't the best, which could partially be attributed to my partial color blindness.

On the flip side, we had a composer who worked remotely from NY (several states away), and he did fantastic work. He's personable, he's incredibly talented, and he sent me samples of literally everything he did along the way. That's how I was able to manage as we went with him, and he did such great work and was so great at keeping us informed and working remotely that he ended up doing the sound mixing, as well.

If I had anything more to spend on this movie, I would. I'm a recent college graduate, I'm 25, and I was sick of always talking about making a feature film for cheap and not doing it. For better or worse, I now have something to show for myself. I wouldn't change that.
 
mr_goodbomb said:
At my age, on my budget, with my income, $175 isn't throw-away. I appreciate your comments, but not everyone is in the same financial or professional boat as you. And according to the PayPal representative, "not as described" is quantified by discussing the product, not getting the same product as discussed, and having a physical item with which that content was delivered on (DVD).

Mind you, if you failed to read, $175 was the second half of the payment, but I'm sure with the way you presented your opinion, that makes little difference.
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Whether it is $175 or $350, something like quality is a very subjective matter that PP isn't going to look at or get into.
The CC guy can simply say you're trying to get the work for free now that he delivered by claiming poor quality.
Disputes like these are a part of this business and unless you have a contract with very specific terms and landmarks, (and your failing to follow up on quality checks throughout will definitely work against you) PP or any court will see it as a completed job.

For something like CC work, you need to be there regularly or receive copies of the work done on a very regular basis. Unfortunately you were unable to do this, so you were going on blind faith that you'll get a usable product delivered.

Again, and this probably sounds tough, but you paid for a learning experience that unfortunately wasn't a good one. It won't be your only one, but it was a cheap one.
 
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