color correction & cinematographer

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BennyMonday

Active member
I'm curious ... why my cinematographer insists he has to do or have direct interaction with the person doing the color correction. I understand the feel of the film and know what we were trying to achieve. I'm not sure if we are dealing with ego or something I'm just not getting.
Anyone want to chime in here??
 
I don't want to start going on a rant, so I'll keep it short. He has every right to be there. Give me one reason why he shouldn't.

Please go here: http://www.ascmag.com/magazine_dynamic/podcasts.php

and scroll down to the three part series called "Authoring Images" and take a read. All three parts will help you see how a healthy film making relationship between director, prod designer, DP, and colorist should take place.

If you have any questions I'd be glad to specifically answer them, but I kept my first answer short because I could go on, passionately, for days on the subject of the DP's role in CC and post.
 
Agreed.

I've dealt with many a director who do not understand this. They think the DP's role ends when production ends, and in rare circumstances this is true, but much of the vision created by a DP on set is completed or manipulated in the post world, and on a technical and creative level, I think it is very important for the DP to be involved in the color correction and grading process.
 
BennyMonday said:
I'm curious ... why my cinematographer insists he has to do or have direct interaction with the person doing the color correction. I understand the feel of the film and know what we were trying to achieve. I'm not sure if we are dealing with ego or something I'm just not getting.
Anyone want to chime in here??
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If you just hired a camera operator, perhaps you have a point... but the cinematographer's 'business' is the formation of the image. You, presumably the director, hired the cinematographer, based on your estimation of their ability to get the 'final film look' you wanted... if you were really the cinematographer... then perhaps you could have gotten away with a camera operator... or heck run the camera yourself and spared that expense...

Otherwise, the final 'look' of the image is the cinematographer's business.
 
Plus, what if he shot something a certain way knowing that it would be manipulated a certain way in post? If you aren't aware, it might not be as good as it could be.
 
I guess I need to add a little more to the story, as I did with Ryan. Long story short the DP was more than a handful on set and one shoot threw such a tantrum everyone was standing around staring in disbelief. I was constantly apologizing for his behavior and had to help talk the actors through the one shoot. Very immature and unprofessional, I would in all respect be all for the DP being involved in post but in this particular situation I had to draw the line. I asked around to other DP's who agreed it's not normal but very understandable this time.
I just wanted some feedback as to his claims of "having to be the one to do it" and "no one else can but me". There is a lot of ego flowing in this one too. The product was very good but the replacement DP I brought in at the end was easily able to reproduce the same look just by viewing previous footage. He was by the way a consummate pro and a credit to Cinematographers.
Thanks for your feedback, I greatly respect the job please don't think I was just cutting someone out without a very very good reason.
 
Hehehe

I'm currently D.Ping a feature, thats a relatively small crew.
Since the scheduling is so tight, the director trusts me with almost all of the visuals, and works on the acting, but chimes in when he wants something specific. I love that relationship so much.
Before I came on board, he said

"Are you the kind of D.P that has to edit his work otherwise he won't do it?"
I giggled like a schoolgirl and said no of course.

I recently asked for one of the tapes to capture some stuff for my reel, so I edited one of the scenes that was shot in a liquor store. I showed it to him and he loved it.

Yet I'm not editing it, because he wants to edit it, and he might murder a lot of my favorite shots, but like you guys said, it's an ego thing most of the time.
You want to be the one to get it on tape, and be the one to press burn to DVD, its hard to let go of your baby.

But the D.P will of course be very helpful in assisting the director in finding that look for the film when it comes to the color correction section of the editing, welcome the guy in, he's just trying to help, but let him know he can't make all of the decisions.
 
Being a director, I NEED my DP to chime in with color correction... mostly because (despite loving color and even having a favorite grading.... yeah i'm not lame.. or a dp) He knows how to fix it. There will be problems with it, too saturated, not saturated enough etc and he knows exactly what he (or she) did and knows how to fix it. I have one scene where everything is oversaturated with white.. that's how it needs to be... so he's gonna fix it for me in post. so its oversaturated... he set the lights up (with my input) so that way we even created shadows to give a surreal look. it is beautiful!
 
I think I have started two threads that maybe should be combined. Please refer to the Filmmaking/Directing category ... and go to the thread "My DP has lost his mind ... "
You will find much more information about this issue. I wanted to come here to find some "other side" points of view and not give you so much dirt on the issue, for an objective perspective ... appreciate all your input.
Thanks!
 
Color is one of the biggest jobs of a DP! Getting those fine color nuances, those perfect shades of color and light. These are the essence of conematography
 
Oh man. I think I just went through exactly why this colorist DP relationship exists. The director told me she didn't have time to do the final color correct with me there and to just trust the colorist. I already knew the colorist and didn't think she was the greatest...

The director called me last night, said she had a color correction nightmare, and wanted me to come over at the last minute to finish up the project.

I went over there this morning and oh my gosh. My hard work all down the drain. There was so much posterization all over everything, no shadow detail anywhere to be found, everything was just one big crushed black. If I had let it go, I don't even want to know what my friends would have thought of me as a DP...

That's my gripe. There is a reason for that....it's just protecting your butt.
 
a good DP should also be a good colorist. he should have a deep knowledge of color theory and also know how to use the color grading tools.

if he doesn't have a deep knowledge of those two things, he has no business sticking his nose in the color correction of the final image.

to put it bluntly, a good DP is someone who should be able to be a fulltime colorist if needed.
 
Oliax said:
a good DP should also be a good colorist. he should have a deep knowledge of color theory and also know how to use the color grading tools.

if he doesn't have a deep knowledge of those two things, he has no business sticking his nose in the color correction of the final image.

to put it bluntly, a good DP is someone who should be able to be a fulltime colorist if needed.
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Hmmm.... I've been a line producer for a lot of years, working in film, television, TV commercials; and along the way spent many a night in a xfer suite with a Colourist, the Director, and the DP. These DP's have been Oscar winners, and have shot high profile features and blockbusters that most of us have in our DVD collections.

In every instance the DP could never be a full time colourist! They would sit in the suite, give comments and then sit back and let the colourist do their job. Nudging when things didn't look right...

In short the DP should be in the suite to let the colourist know what he was going for, but it doesn't make them any less of a talent if they don't know how to fiddle the dials!

P.S. I did a job this past summer with an Oscar winning DP, who couldn't load film and when we switched to the HVX for some grainy pick up shots couldn't even operate it. Will he keep working? YES
Will he keep winning awards? YES
Why? Because he has vision and knows how light works!
 
heavyG said:
Hmmm.... I've been a line producer for a lot of years, working in film, television, TV commercials; and along the way spent many a night in a xfer suite with a Colourist, the Director, and the DP. These DP's have been Oscar winners, and have shot high profile features and blockbusters that most of us have in our DVD collections.

In every instance the DP could never be a full time colourist! They would sit in the suite, give comments and then sit back and let the colourist do their job. Nudging when things didn't look right...

In short the DP should be in the suite to let the colourist know what he was going for, but it doesn't make them any less of a talent if they don't know how to fiddle the dials!

P.S. I did a job this past summer with an Oscar winning DP, who couldn't load film and when we switched to the HVX for some grainy pick up shots couldn't even operate it. Will he keep working? YES
Will he keep winning awards? YES
Why? Because he has vision and knows how light works!
Click to expand...

i think you misunderstood what i was trying to say.

i was not saying the DP should be the colorist.

i was saying that the DP should have enough knowledge in color theory and the color grading tools that he could be a fulltime colorist if he so wanted to be, for whatever reason. this is pretty basic practice in the industry, guys - especially for today. if your DP doesn't have that knowledge, then he shouldn't have a say in the final image of the color grading and he shouldn't even be your DP in the first place.

i agree with you and i believe in having a seperate colorist to grade your film.
 
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Oliax said:
i think you misunderstood what i was trying to say.

this is pretty basic practice in the industry, guys - especially for today.
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So what part of the industry do you work in? 'cause it's not the big budget pro industry that I seem to work in...
 
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