Color Correction Advice

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DVXSanDiego

Well-known member
Firstly, thanks for any advice people give on this.
We're in the final stages of a feature project, and I spent some time last night color correcting (mild stuff, slight adjustment to curves, B/W filter to desaturate, slight adjustment with secondary color coorector) all done directly to DVCPro HD files via Raylight plugin in Vegas Pro 8 at 32-bit.
It looks good, but there are some slight artifacting problems, I'm assuming because the adjustments are happening in such a compressed space. I've read in Stu Maschwitz's DV Rebel book that the best post workflow is to output all untouched files to an image sequence and do all the work in After Effects. We have access to AE but given our unfamiliarity with the program and the simple work we plan on doing, it seems to be overkill. And now that Vegas does processing in a 32-bit space, we would like to do all the post work in Vegas.
So this leads to my real question: What is the best workflow for getting our final edits into a less compressed space to do CC in? Render our to Cineform, re-cut at the edits and CC? Render out to image sequence? What do you all do? Any personal examples, examples of footage, etc., are welcome.
And one note: this footage will be seen in theaters, at least at festivals, possible with a small theatrical run. It has to look as clean as possible...
 
Sorry for bringing up an old thread, but I was about to ask the same question.

For the past few months I've been doing heavy CC on my own projects using "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction" as a guide, and enjoy the flexibility of being able to correct each shot within Vegas (or a group of shots on a track), and then give a look to the entire project from the master.

I think everything looks fine (not just fine -- great), and almost all of the techniques from the book can be used in Vegas.

The big benefit of CCing an editing project is that I can make changes and move things around at the last minute, and not have to CC everything again (and only have to render once.)

What are your thoughts on serious CCing within Vegas, especially now that it has the 32-bit mode? What's stopping Vegas (if anything) from being used for professional-level grading?
 
pmark23 said:
What's stopping Vegas (if anything) from being used for professional-level grading?
Click to expand...

If you've every used Magic Bullet, you'd have your answer... :)

For one, I'd REALLY like to be able to apply certain effects to a portion of the screen. When I saw how you could select just a face in MB and lighten and soften it, then bring down the luminance in background footage, and have that shape track with the shot, I understood why Vegas is not a pro grader.

The ability to A/B shots so you can match things shot to shot is also a big one. I watched that happen with Color or Colorista on that Se7en BTS featurette. That was sweet.

Vegas is a nice tool, but you really can't have everything in one package I don't think. Specialty markets exist for a reason.
 
I use Magic Bullet Looks Suite on the master track for the overall look.

You can easily do all those things in Vegas.

The Secondary CC plugin lets you isolate colour regions (like skin-tones), and modify only them or everything else except them. You can also keyframe bezier-curves to apply an effect only on a particular part of the frame, but it's a bit more complicated and time-consuming. It would be very nice to draw a keyframeable bezier curve and gradient for masking within the secondary-CC plugin.

A/Bing is a button on the preview window (called split-screen). To compare a previous shot, copy the shot to the clipboard, then import into Vegas and overlay on the shot you want to copy, then press the split-screen button to remove any effects from it. Takes all of three seconds and about five mouse-clicks/drags.

After going through "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction" I realized that Vegas has the same tools, only differently named -- so why not?
 
It's not just a matter of the same tools, it's a matter of how they work. Just as example - and this may or may not apply to Vegas - but there is a plugin for FCP (and other apps, including AE) called Colorista. It was created by the guy mentioned above, Stu Maschuwitz, who also created Magic Bullet. Anyway, take a look at this blog post: FCP vs Colorista

In it, Stu points out why he created Colorista. Not to make a lot of money from people that dont know any better, but for HIMSELF since the tools in the NLEs didnt work quite right.

coloristaFCP.jpg



On the top is FCP, on the bottom is Colorista working WITHIN FCP. They are "the same tools" but look at how FCP handles color with those tools as opposed to Colorista.

The same COULD be happening in Vegas. I own Vegas 8, I even sometimes use it these days, but all my onlining and CC take place in AE. At the end of the day, AE just has more power in post work than any NLE. There are NLEs that do alot of things. Vegas is an awesome "all in one" application that you can get it and easily get by with just it. But there are other apps that are better suited to certain things that Vegas can do. If you dont own AE, I think it is WORTH IT to buy it. If you DONT have it, you can get by with just Vegas.

Just my 2 cents. Also, when a guy with this IMDB profile suggests a workflow, I'm gonna listen.

At the very least, read the blog post above and watch the FCP/Colorista video. It's eye opening.
 
pmark; thanks for reviving my thread, since it never got a response til now. CC tools in Vegas are kind of lacking, but there's even less discussion of the worklfow required to get a project through post with professional level codecs, to a post house and on to theater screens with as little degradation as possibble. Have been working with the Vegas plugin of Magic Bullet Looks currently. Nice to hear people discussing this.

And GageFX; yes, that's exactly why I listen to Stu Maschwitz, both in his Rebel's Guide book and at his Rebel Cafe Forums online. He quite simply knows what he is doing.

I brought attention to a short film, White Red Panic, at the Sony Creative Software Forums, the other day, because the kid who did it edited and CC'd entirely in Vegas, and Stu Maschwitz had championed the film. SCS forum members were kind of dismissive. It seems the Rebel aesthetic is a little more alive on the DVX Forums.

Thanks!

PS - Links for:

ProLost Stu Machwitz Entry on White Red Panic: http://prolost.blogspot.com/2008/07/go-naked-pt-2.html

Rebel Cafe: http://rebelsguide.com/forum/

SCS Forum Thread I mentioned: http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=604477&Replies=4

Stu Machwitz's actual IMDB profile ( the one posted above is for his company, The Orphanage): http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0556179/
 
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While using alot of words, that is quite a dismissive post.

I certainly dont think anyone should just blindly listen to one person, but you say you "listen" to him because "he knows what he's doing", but then you still ask the question.

What is the best workflow for getting our final edits into a less compressed space to do CC in?
Click to expand...

And to be clear, the short film is "championed" do to it's example of what can be achieved with a consumer camera, without a 35mm adapter, and and no budget. While the film looks great, I dont think the championing points to CC in Vegas or that it was done the best way, just that it was done at all.
 
GageFX said:
While using alot of words, that is quite a dismissive post.

I certainly dont think anyone should just blindly listen to one person, but you say you "listen" to him because "he knows what he's doing", but then you still ask the question.



And to be clear, the short film is "championed" do to it's example of what can be achieved with a consumer camera, without a 35mm adapter, and and no budget. While the film looks great, I dont think the championing points to CC in Vegas or that it was done the best way, just that it was done at all.
Click to expand...

Gage, whose post are you referring to? I don't understand who you are criticizing or to what posts you're discussing... are you saying MY post was dismissive?
 
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