Close you Apertures !!!

NathanPresley

NathanPresley

Well-known member
Im a still photographer as well as DP for digital video.

One thing I see time and time again in 35mm adpater footage is
never at a really good focus or very often too soft. My pictures do the exact
same thing when I leave my aperture "all the way" open.

You zoom in on it and you'll see that same softness. Close it a little
and it will be better. Also If you notice is almost all major films the DOF
is shallow, but not near as shallow as we all seem to be making of footage
with our 35mm adapters.

Just make sure you have enough light and close the aperture on your lens
a little.


Any thoughts ?
 
I think that is a really good point. In everyone's excitement with 35mm adapters, there is a desire to have shallow DOF in every shot. Now that we have it, the difference in film -vs- digital is less, but what is most noticeable now is excessive shallow DOF in adapter footage. I think we're so happy to have it that we're using it too much. I'm sure we can expect folks to become better at it as shallow DOF in video becomes a common feature.
 
That's one thing I love about my sgpro. Shooting at a 5.6 or and 8 and not worrying about the gg showing up.
 
Well said Nathan.

I'm as guilty of "excessive" shallow focus as the next guy, but now that take a step back and look at it, I agree that sometimes it detracts from the look. Like you said, a fully open aperture reduces the sharpness of the picture, but small video cameras crave that light! Maybe we can find a happy medium after this craze passes us up.
 
I agree. Unfortunately many of us are limited by the adapter's vibrating gg and can't stop down past f/4 or f/5.6. This certainly affects what focal length I choose at times or the distance between subject and camera. It's a limitation that makes the Letus Ultimate (or, you know, shooting on film) a lot more appealing.
 
Very good point, and I agree entirely. There is a time and a place for very shallow depth of field, but it too often is over used. Now often this does happen purely for technical reasons (not enough light once you strap an adapter on), but again, I agree. I would like to use this opportunity to whore out my TwilightFest entry, "Sixty Seconds" (click on banner below). Shot using the Letus Extreme 35mm adapter, I was very particular and choosey with my DOF, and I'm happy to say that I kept a very clean and crisp image throughout, utilizing my lens adapter without "abusing its power" :) . Hope all enjoy, and again, thanks for the thread Nathan, very good point.
 
ahh. you mean shooting at 1.2 all day is not good? hahaha, I love having less than an 1/2" of focusing area. With our 35mm adapter we almost go to far, If i can I usually shoot at F4. I like the look. Not too much, not to less, light permitting.


Jon
 
We specifically advise using f2.8 to f4 for exactly this reason. Shooting at the recommended aperture also improves bokeh rendition. The light loss with our imaging elements is not linear which means for example that total system light loss with a 50mm lens at f4 with our CF1le element is still less than 1 stop to your camera.
 
Also keep in mind the sweet spot of each camera isn't when the iris is full open! It has to be stopped down somewhat. The "Sweet Spot" as it's often called is where the camera is at its sharpest. Which for anyone that knows 35mm adapters... sharpness is very important. Just ask Denis!
 
I don't know. I've read at least 100 articles in ASC about how the films are shot. And yes I am talking about film and not the piddly video we shoot. However, in nearly all cases they seem to be working betwen T4 and T2. Occasionally on the steadicam or when shooting handheld you'll see a T5.6.

To get even REMOTELY close to a Zeiss prime at T2 or T2.8 with common Nikon Glass, you're running wide open. There is a reason their glass costs what it does. Our glass can't compete for sharpness. So the question is do you double your lighting and stop down, with the resultant depth of field, or do you live with a reasonable light level on set, get the DOF that you bought the adapter for, and live with the softness.

Alternately, I guess you could rent some good glass and buy yourself a stop and some sharpness. But renting a package of good glass for 3-4 weeks could cost as much as some small films!

What to do... what to do...

NathanPresley said:
Im a still photographer as well as DP for digital video.

One thing I see time and time again in 35mm adpater footage is
never at a really good focus or very often too soft. My pictures do the exact
same thing when I leave my aperture "all the way" open.

You zoom in on it and you'll see that same softness. Close it a little
and it will be better. Also If you notice is almost all major films the DOF
is shallow, but not near as shallow as we all seem to be making of footage
with our 35mm adapters.

Just make sure you have enough light and close the aperture on your lens
a little.


Any thoughts ?
Click to expand...
 
this could be stupid, but just something i was always wondering, why does a faster lens cost more money than? i thought faster lenses meant sharper image?
 
Macaholic262 said:
this could be stupid, but just something i was always wondering, why does a faster lens cost more money than? i thought faster lenses meant sharper image?
Click to expand...

Faster refers to the maximum aperature. Has zero to do with sharpness. Sharpness comes from the precision of the glass and the lens's ability to bring that to a fine point of light exactly at the image plane. Two very different things.

Fast glass is more expensive because it's harder to do accurately. And that means without distortion, chromatic aberration, etc. It's a tough process.
 
The dilemma with lens adapters on small-sensor digital camcorders is that they completely flip the table on DOF. Aside from outdoors in daytime, a camera like the HVX200, which has way too much DOF out of the box becomes way too little the moment you put on the adapter. Then, if you stop the taking lens down to get a moderate, pleasing DOF your light-hungriness factor goes through the roof.

For this reason I make every effort to avoid using the adapter (an LEX in my case) unless it is specifically appropriate for a given shot/lighting condition. The notion of using it at all times is simply not practicable IMHO. A +/- 2" DOF creates so many technical and artistic problems that it should be avoided under almost all circumstances.

Yes there are some adapter on/off 'look' differences that consequently have to be managed in editing and post. I say "so manage them".
 
Ted Spencer said:
For this reason I make every effort to avoid using the adapter (an LEX in my case) unless it is specifically appropriate for a given shot/lighting condition. The notion of using it at all times is simply not practicable IMHO. A +/- 2" DOF creates so many technical and artistic problems that it should be avoided under almost all circumstances.

Yes there are some adapter on/off 'look' differences that consequently have to be managed in editing and post. I say "so manage them".
Click to expand...

I've wanted to do this so badly sometimes, for those shots where I do want a deep DOF but don't have the light. It's just such a pain taking the adapter on and off, all the fine tuning that goes into making sure everything's centered just right, zoomed in just enough (darn inaccurate LCD's and their cropped images). For this reason I need a second camera.
 
Exept for wide areial shots or architecture my LEX is always on the camera.

I use mostly Zeiss medium format lenses that not only gives a sweet filmic look and Bokeh, but also give much more light for the same appereture.

My Nikon 1.4/50 and the Zeiss medium format 4/50 have almost the same speed.

Frank
 
Roger Deakins always seems to shoot at around f8 or f11 outside, as it more closely mimics how we actually see things in the daytime. Inside I think you can shoot wide open all the time and get away with it, but of course there are times when the shallow DOF isn't appropriate. Usually things like comedy is something sort of strange to have very shallow DOF with.

Basically, as long as it works with the story, who cares?
 
RyanT said:
Roger Deakins always seems to shoot at around f8 or f11 outside, as it more closely mimics how we actually see things in the daytime.
Click to expand...

Did you watch "The Assassination of Jesse James?" That movie had a TON of shallow DOF outside. Maybe it was just the genre.

But I agree. Have the choices fit the story. However, when you are struggling for light, either because you can't push 4 18ks somewhere, or because you can't afford a T2 8mm lens, you just have to do what you can...
 
What are your opinions on what the lens on the camera (HVX) be stopped down to when using an adapter (Brevis in my case)?
 
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