Client wants fcp/ae project files, doesn't want to pay for them

F

fgiraffe

Member
Hello all-

I couldn't find anything in searching but I know that this has had to have come up before:

I contracted with a client to deliver a video, which I delivered and they are happy with. They have not yet paid me, but I expect them to.

They have come back and are now asking for the Final Cut Pro, After Effects, DVD Studio project files, and Photoshop source artwork I created for the job. They do not want to pay anything for them.

They're honest, they want to be able to make continued edits to the project using a cheaper editor (since I'm billing them at $15/hour, this is living proof there is always someone cheaper!).

My stance is "you asked for a video, I delivered. I am not going to provide source to you for free, this was not in our deal.".

So, my questions:
  1. Am I being unreasonable?
  2. How often has this come up for you?
  3. How do you prepare for this in your deal sheets/contracts?
  4. Do you build in an extra charge when you know that by handing over the project files you will never gain any more revenue from that project?
Or, put simply: is my client on crack for wanting the sources, or am I on crack for not being willing to part with them for free?? :huh:

I was honestly hoping to build a long-term relationship with this non-profit. I have already bent over backwards for them with scheduling, and billed for less hours than this job actually took.

I am just looking for more experienced editors to relate how they deal with this issue.
That old line about "the more you bill the less problems you have" seems wiser by the minute!

Thanks in advance!

-Frank
 
After getting paid, including for the time spent creating the files, they can do as they please. If you really want to be a hardass, tell them they must credit *you* as the author of any said materials they plan to use in the future- regardless of who cuts it, and make them sign a release waiver before handing it over.

But that is just me, and I'm cranky today.
 
Contracts define the deliverables. This is usually stated as a master tape or DVD, project files are never included in the contract. Clearly stating this avoids the after the fact mess that you're in right now. Most motion designers I know will tell their clients up front the price is $X for the final files and $Y for the final files and the project files (Y = double the price).

Honestly, this sort of nickel and dime client is not worth keeping. You'll end up killing yourself for every project and they would still complain about the price.

client on crack for wanting the sources, or am I on crack for not being willing to part with them for free??
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Your client is wrong to assume they own the project files - they don't. You can stand firm on your position that they asked for a video and you delivered (which I agree with). But they have something you want, money. And you have something they want, the master and project files. Neither party can afford to sue the other so this is something you have to workout with your client. Welcome to the business side of Film & Television. Are we having fun yet?

That old line about "the more you bill the less problems you have" seems wiser by the minute!
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Repeat this mantra over and over again. Let the $10/hr guys have all the problematic clients they can handle. Isn't $15/hr in SF considered minimum wage?
 
i've worked on trailers, dvd and epk pieces for all the major studios and they never expect to take the project files when moving to another vendor. however, that doesn't stop them from taking a copy of your output and having the new guy rebuild the cut and make changes to that. that happens a lot actually, with trailers.

anyway, i concur with milksac. those files are yours. if they want changes, they should come to you. if they don't want to work with you, they need to take the output and source tapes (which they do own) to another vendor.

if they aren't happy with it, they are essentially killing the project. suggest they pay a "kill fee" in negotiation for handing over the files (if that's something you'd want to do).
 
Yep simply put,

The client has absolutely no right to expect any of your source files unless specifically stipulated - otherwise it IS NOT standard practice to give anything like that for free.

Professional photographers never gave away their negatives for the same reason. You didn't break your back making all that stuff just so you could lose repeat work by them finding some punk to make a wee edit on all your project files. Neither have you licensed them to be allowed to use that material on other videos or projects etc I imagine.

It's really hard (and i know exactly how you feel) if your working with budget clients that expect everything (with cream on top!) I can't wait to progress onto more realistic clients myself!
 
$15/hr for AE??? Holy mother of God. Tell them they may be running a charity, but you 'aint on welfare.
 
The main reason you should give for not giving them project files is that they contain proprietary techniques that other editors may not be privy to, and thus have great value both to the client and the cheaper editor. That value must be compensated for. Hold your ground. And as someone else said...ditch this client when you can.
 
marketmd said:
The main reason you should give for not giving them project files is that they contain proprietary techniques that other editors may not be privy to...
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That's a great way to put it, as this is a creative-based non-profit that is very protective of their work product. Putting it in terms they might get will be key.

And $15/hr for my AE skills is about right at the current time, but they're getting a break on the editing. :grin:

Thanks all for the thoughtful replies.
 
They don't own them in my view. But who cares? I agree that this is not a client you want. Fire them before they drive you over the edge.

Give them the files and a check for 25.00 for their charity, and just because they are a non profit don't be shy - tell them you never want to
work with them again, that the experience has been both a professional and personal an eye-opener for you, and that the 25.00 is payment for a valuable life lesson.
 
seems to me they puchased what they are asking for. It's as easy as billing an hour or two to lay off what is theirs but I woulnt chase off a client over this.
 
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