Clerks budget question

Chamber005

Chamber005

Carbonite Member
So this kind of thing comes up all the time when we talk about the "supposed" budgets of these little indie films. I can't seem to find the answer anywhere and it's on none of the Clerks' commentaries -- how did they obtain rights to the few popular songs that appear in the film?

My knee jerk reaction is that they did nothing themselves to secure the songs and the studios did it after the fact. But, for instance, when the woman comes in talking about manual masturbating animals for a living, and the lyrics "You can go your own way" close out the scene, I can't imagine that scene having the same punch without that bit of music added. Was it there in the original screening?

If the studios secured it, then the film's actual budget (sans film prints which is expected in distribution), was nowhere in the vicinity of what they claim.

Anyone have anymore information on this?

It's an aside, but I've found it terribly difficult trying to get anyone to answer in any regard with securing music. About a year ago I was trying to secure a song (just a license to have someone sing it in a film), went through all the appropriate steps, filled out the forms regarding budget, etc. and couldn't get a reply no matter how many calls I made. Has anyone had any real world experience securing popular music for their movies? It seems like this should be the easiest thing in the world seeing as how there are two giant companies that handle pretty much every single popular song ever recorded, and yet I feel like you send in your forms and they just go to some bottomless pit somewhere.

I thought if maybe Kevin Smith had accomplished this PRIOR to his original screening, that information would be useful. But thus far I've found nothing regarding the popular music in Clerks.
 
The soundtrack was completely redone after the movie was purchased (by Miramax, I think)?

They talked about it on the Clerks X DVD, I believe, and they also had the original cut of the film with the original soundtrack.

So no, the budget of the version most people have seen was technically higher than the $30k production budget.
 
Miramax spent a lot more than the $27k budget on it, Dimension films spent $400k on Rodregez El Mariachi fixing it and on audio so what people saw (heard) years ago was actually a $407k film and not a $7k film. I don't know the numbers Miramax spent on Clerks for post / finshing / sound but I'd guess around $500k-$800k.
 
ChipG said:
Miramax spent a lot more than the $27k budget on it, Dimension films spent $400k on Rodregez El Mariachi fixing it and on audio so what people saw (heard) years ago was actually a $407k film and not a $7k film. I don't know the numbers Miramax spent on Clerks for post / finshing / sound but I'd guess around $500k-$800k.
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That's what's so funny about these myths continuing to be perpetuated. It's like the budgets just become part of the selling tactic when trying to get people to see the film.
 
Yea, I know... Sell a camera, sell a dream, sell a lens mount, a new light kit etc. make money if it's your biz, boards are good for that but even (ok, I'll say it on a public forum) Paranormal Activity had $2M+ into it at the end. (no film prints or marketing cost in that #)
 
Chamber005 said:
It's like the budgets just become part of the selling tactic when trying to get people to see the film.
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Of course they are - that's what marketing does, creates a story that makes you want the product being sold - regardless of what that product is.
And when it comes to films, often times the budget is part of that story. We saw it with Mariachi, Clerks, Slacker, Blair Witch, Open Water, Paranormal Activity..etc etc. And it's not just the low budget films - the same could be said of something like Avatar and other big budget projects.

But as far as the low budget stories go... I'll say the same thing I always do when this comes up...
Honestly, who really cares?
Mariachi was still a $7K movie when Columbia bought it...
Paranormal Activity was still a $15K film when Paramount bought it...
Clerks was still a $27K film when Mirimax bought it....

So what difference does it make how much money the studio decided to pour into it after the fact?

Now, in regards to your music question, i can see how it might be slightly annoying - but I still don't think it takes anything away from the story being told.
At the end of the day do most filmmakers want to make a movie JUST like version of Mariachi that was released for $7K?
Or do they want to try to make a movie for $7K that is good enough to get picked up by a major studio for worldwide release?
 
Yea, Rodregez did shoot Mariach for $7k, Peli shot PA for under $15k, Kevin - Clerks $27k, no lies there, I'd bet a few reciepts that they forgot about for more.
 
ChipG said:
Yea, Rodregez did shoot Mariach for $7k, Peli shot PA for under $15k, Kevin - Clerks $27k, no lies there, I'd bet a few reciepts that they forgot about for more.
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Exactly. Yes, the versions you see on DVD are far more expensive, but the filmmakers themselves--the guys who made them independently of the studio did get their films in the can for roughly the budgets the claimed. The OP (or anyone for that matter) should pick up the Clerks X (tenth anniversary) DVD. There's so much information on how the film was made. It even comes with the original $27,000 warts and all long cut that played at the 1993 IFFM. And the Snowball Effect documentary always makes me want to make a movie. Even if you're not a big Kevin Smith fan, I think it's worth the purchase if you want to make micro-budget movies.
 
Billy Pilgrim said:
Exactly. Yes, the versions you see on DVD are far more expensive, but the filmmakers themselves--the guys who made them independently of the studio did get their films in the can for roughly the budgets the claimed. The OP (or anyone for that matter) should pick up the Clerks X (tenth anniversary) DVD. There's so much information on how the film was made. It even comes with the original $27,000 warts and all long cut that played at the 1993 IFFM. And the Snowball Effect documentary always makes me want to make a movie. Even if you're not a big Kevin Smith fan, I think it's worth the purchase if you want to make micro-budget movies.
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Yeah, I own the X box edition. I must have missed them talking specifically about the soundtrack. The only thing I ever remember him mentioning was that the music video they shot for Clerks cost more than the movie. lol

And yeah, I'm taking nothing away whatsoever for what these guys did selling their films as-is. In some cases it makes what they did even MORE remarkable. I, personally, think Clerks would have been a much harder movie to watch without all the music cues -- and the fact that someone bought it without those cues in is pretty amazing. Same with Rodriguez and his world reknowned wretched dialog track on El Mariachi.

Honestly, though, I think I've finally gotten over 90% of my music woes. I found a remarkable site that sells lyric and non lyric music rights from thousands of indie bands and musicians that pretty much takes care of everything I need.

There's one song that I am so desperate for that isn't a popular song but is by a popular band, and I just know that there's no way I'm going to be able to get it for any kind of decent price. And as for getting anything for free? lol I know people say that artists will donate stuff sometimes, but out of the three times I've tried with entertainment artists only one worked out.

The producers from the web show The Guild said no to me having one of their episodes playing on a television in a scene.

I also asked Terra Naomi (music artist who got her big break on MySpace and is now signed to a UK label) if I could use one of her previous acoustic recordings and she said that the studio owned the rights to the song and that they wouldn't allow her to allow anyone to use it -- she said that I could ask them but that they probably wouldn't let me use it for free.

The last one was a fluke as the band turned out to be a pretty well known group (but in Australia) and the lead singer and songwriter gave me the okay -- and then told me, "Thanks for asking! Looking forward to it!"

So maybe the off-topic lesson is, if you want something for free, ask an Aussie! :D

But yeah, I mentioned it in another thread regarding music rights, but in case anyone is in my same boat looking for music for their production, you can secure rights on some really great music for a small DVD run for about 100 bucks. If you're going 10,000 DVDs or higher it costs a little more, but it's all very reasonable, and the music was much, much better than I expected. Real bands playing real music (not a bunch of homemade crap -- though there definitely is some crap there. lol) You can search by genre + mood, etc. And you can listen to the entire song, none of that clipped teaser crap. And I haven't even started in on the instrumental stuff. I'm sure it's amazing.

https://secure.gettyimages.com/Music/PumpAudio
 
Music licensing is not that bad if you get a band that can cover the song. We have a very VERY famous song in one of my shorts. It costs me about $300/yr for the "festival rights" and it would be about $600 to sell 5000 DVDs with it on there. BMI has been shockingly helpful the whole time considering I am a nobody with a nothing little short film. My rep gets back to me always within a day, and more often than not within a couple of hours.

The band did donate their performance of the song to us, but in general, if it's not the famous version of a song you can get the rights cheaper.
 
Chamber005 said:
how did they obtain rights to the few popular songs that appear in the film?

My knee jerk reaction is that they did nothing themselves to secure the songs and the studios did it after the fact. But, for instance, when the woman comes in talking about manual masturbating animals for a living, and the lyrics "You can go your own way" close out the scene, I can't imagine that scene having the same punch without that bit of music added. Was it there in the original screening?

If the studios secured it, then the film's actual budget (sans film prints which is expected in distribution), was nowhere in the vicinity of what they claim.
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Well, now you've got me wondering. The version of the song in question is by the punk band Seaweed, not Fleetwood Mac. Was it not in the original screened version? (I saw it in a theater, but who can remember?) I wonder what it cost them to license a "covered" song VS. an original piece of music by some alternative band of the time.

What are the other "popular songs" in Clerks you are referring to, Chamber?

EDIT: I just got the Blu Ray. Looking forward to watching the "first cut" and answering some of my own questions.
 
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I have to agree with many here. You CAN make movies for a few thousand bucks nowadays. And if it's that good, a company will pour money into it to distribute it. Unless you're rich enough to have your own distribution company, this is the only way I know of to get your film WIDELY DISTRIBUTED IN THEATERS.

Now, what's so bad about that? You can still arrange your own public screenings, make and sell your DVDs through a company, put your films on internet On-Demand services. But if a company is going to back your movie with its name and distribute it in HI-TECH commercial cinemas, yeah, they're going to throw down some money to make it look and sound as good as possible. They have to anyway for film prints.

But it's like saying some indie band shouldn't make an album or EP because a stadium concert will just cost them millions of dollars.
 
Deepfocus88 said:
Well, now you've got me wondering. The version of the song in question is by the punk band Seaweed, not Fleetwood Mac. Was it not in the original screened version? (I saw it in a theater, but who can remember?) I wonder what it cost them to license a "covered" song VS. an original piece of music by some alternative band of the time.

What are the other "popular songs" in Clerks you are referring to, Chamber?

EDIT: I just got the Blu Ray. Looking forward to watching the "first cut" and answering some of my own questions.
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The only other music from the movie that came to mind was the one written by...don't remember the name of the band. They sang "Runaway Train"? They're the ones who they shot the video with. Soul Asylum maybe? I forget, it's been awhile. I'm pretty sure that it's the song that closes out the movie, though.

I didn't know that that other song was a cover, though. That makes more sense.
 
Mark Harris said:
Music licensing is not that bad if you get a band that can cover the song. We have a very VERY famous song in one of my shorts. It costs me about $300/yr for the "festival rights" and it would be about $600 to sell 5000 DVDs with it on there. BMI has been shockingly helpful the whole time considering I am a nobody with a nothing little short film. My rep gets back to me always within a day, and more often than not within a couple of hours.

The band did donate their performance of the song to us, but in general, if it's not the famous version of a song you can get the rights cheaper.
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Okay, see I thought of that, and there really is only ONE song that I want that I don't think I'll be able to get, and, unfortunately, it's sung by 30 Seconds to Mars, and to say that there are a hundred bands out there who TRY to sound like them (and fail) would be an understatement. Jared Leto has one of those weird screaming voices (like Linkin Park) that's so hard to mimic, and although my friend lays down tracks and has a nice in-home studio, the production value on 30 STM's stuff is extremely choice -- so much so that I don't know if we could recreate it.

I'm wondering if BMI's setup is much different than ASCAP's. ASCAP wouldn't even talk to me, it's just like, "Fill out this detailed form and maybe you'll hear from someone someday." I'm also curious -- if you go through BMI (UK) or ASCAP (US) does that license then extend worldwide? I think somehow I had the impression at some point that you needed to get a separate license from BMI and one from ASCAP depending on where you were showing/distributing your work. That's probably an error in thinking, though.

Have you ever dealt with ASCAP? Maybe I should just stay away from them altogether, but, for instance, you can find Elton John in ASCAP's directory, shouldn't he be under BMI, or is he under both for all of his songs?
 
"festival rights" rights will **** you twice as hard, they give them to you for pennies, if the movie hits you pay 4-10x the amount for thier generosity.

If you have a winner stay away from festivals and the vulchers. It's like saying my movie is a hit because of the music. Maybe, but they will know it.
 
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