Cinvate Flip mOdule...just got mine.

jbednarski said:
For $1,200. + these 35mm adapters better be plug-and-play with ALL the kinks worked out in the R&D phase. I hate when companies use consumers for product testing.
Click to expand...

I sorta agree with you on this one and as an early adopter of the brevis I am finishing now an edit of a film I shot 6 months ago and I see clearly that the GG elements back then were still in development. However I knew the risk and others on the market were in the same league and I would still have made the same choice looking back. Also the production company I freelance for tends to go for the adapter setup and in turn I invest each time Cinevate upgrades, since the adapter paid itself a few times over. It's a little like the RED scenario (though upgrades aren't free ofcourse), hope they also stick to modular and i'm happy to see improvements.
 
Treating them with kid gloves is no way to get results either. I say, chide the crap out of them if you spend good hard earned cash and certain basics in customer service are missing. No return policy for defects. Unconscionable. Hell, when I sell my used gear, I always offer a 7 day return. I just sent back a Marshall to Nebtek only to discover there was nothing wrong with it.

They inadvertently sent it back ground. After finding out, they offered to ship me a new Marshall overnight if I had a job coming up. My Zacuto had a bolt missing from Lord knows what. I called them. No questions asked, they sent me two new ones. Free of charge. Redrock did the same when I was missing another piece of hardware for my focus gears.

What can I say, I've think most everyone has reached their tether with customer service in all aspects of life. When it comes to expensive consumer items, especially photographic toys - that's the one place you expect it to be superior. B&H will be offering the LE with their reknowned no questions asked return policy.

That's my rant. When everyone's tech is more less on a level playing field (which is happening fast). The customer service separates the true players from the clowns.
 
That's customer service. Different than what I was talkin' about. I meant the actual product. =P

Yeah, beat em up on Customer Service. But like the Beta testing thing, that's what I meant.

Not customer service.
 
jbednarski said:
One of the reasons I got rid of my Brevis, besides it not being very sharp, was the lack of instructions, difficulty of set-up, wrong parts shipped, etc. For $1,200. + these 35mm adapters better be plug-and-play with ALL the kinks worked out in the R&D phase. I hate when companies use consumers for product testing. We the customers should demand this type of quality and not be so quick to jump and order the minute that a new product is released. I've seen many people spend a lot of coin and then 2-3 months later an upgraded model is announced, then 3 months later another model is announced, etc. These companies should spend more time perfecting their products instead of offering rail systems that aren't to size or follow focus units and other add-ons. Why not focus (pun intended) on making the adapter perfect before releasing it and before offering another product still in development. I don't have the time in my professional life to "figure someting out". If we demand it, it will be delivered.
Click to expand...

I don't know what adapter you think you have, but what you just said is true of every adapter. Redrock, cinevate, letus, sgpro, all of them make updated products, all of them have made slight slip ups with customers here and there. What's great about them is they all been great at taking care of people on a case by case basis.

And hating on a new fledgling market segment started by guys in there basement for not being able to be on the level of sony, panasonic and canon for consistency or build quality is just silly.

I think some of you guys have forgotten that you're paying a 10th of the cost for these things vs the mini35, it's gonna take time to get everything perfect.
 
Last edited:
You're right. But it's been well over a year now. The hall pass on customer service and the printed manual waiver has expired.

I found the customer service in terms of things not working or adjustment that need to be made quite good for all three. They get back. They send you parts. It was rocky in the early days but much smoother now. I still had to summon the adjustment Gods (Timur) to figure out how to build my SG back in the day (8 months ago). When my LE arrived with a clear one sheet - Hallelullah! Had it running in five minutes.
 
Well, when the plastic lens cover on my unit fell out after one week and the customer service rep emailed me saying I should go out and buy a certain kind of gasket material and fix it myself... that was kinda the end of that product for me.
 
First, let me apologize for the fact that the flip module did not include printed instructions. I'll admit that the assumption was made that our flip owners would already have access to our owner's forum, evidently not correct here.

To be fair, this is what we do to make sure you have support:

1. When a Brevis unit is ordered, the confirmation email includes a link to make sure you are setup with access to the information required, before you get the unit www.cinevate.com/manuals These can be printed off, before the unit arrives. Some folks miss this, so we take another step...

2. When the Brevis35 unit arrives, a strip of paper with the above link is hanging from the lid of the Pelican box to make sure you have access to the manuals.

3. We have a published phone number, 647 723 2664 and a person hired to do nothing but answer it, and emails to sales@cinevate.com . This person is Hubert Den Draak, who speaks four languages, and has an extenive history with film and animation.

4. We have an eight part video series online, and free for owner's to download. It took two weeks and a lot of precious time to do this. User response so far has been excellent. DVD's are being done for shipment with every unit.

5. Cinevate's new home includes a dedicated video support studio with ability to provide a user in trouble a live (free) video feed via SKYPE, MSN, or H264.

We've been trying our very best to provide world class support, while keeping order lead times under 3 days, using overnight delivery, and attending to user needs as promptly as possible. We can certainly include a paper manual, but the tree hugger in me would like to keep it web based if at all possible. Most folks don't realize that I spent my University years studing biology, leaving permanent guilt on what we're doing to our planet. The web-based thing, internal rechargeable non toxiic cells etc, are an attempt (perhaps misguided) to do our little part. Jeeps, Hubert even lives in a straw bale house!

Btw, the entire Cinevate flip unit + Brevis35 is nearly 1 lb lighter than the Letus Extreme. We've taken extensive steps, including using carbon fibre and careful CNC optimization, to make it the lightest flip adapter in the world.

Cheers :-)
 
Last edited:
Tim Naylor said:
You're right. But it's been well over a year now. The hall pass on customer service and the printed manual waiver has expired.

I found the customer service in terms of things not working or adjustment that need to be made quite good for all three. They get back. They send you parts. It was rocky in the early days but much smoother now. I still had to summon the adjustment Gods (Timur) to figure out how to build my SG back in the day (8 months ago). When my LE arrived with a clear one sheet - Hallelullah! Had it running in five minutes.
Click to expand...

It looks like SG still doesn't send a manual.

hoarp001 said:
Hi,

I got an email this morning to say my SG gear was ready, which was nice as it was about two weeks earlier than I was told originally. The GPS took me a really odd route but after I collected it and got home I could have a proper fiddle.

I knew it was already a good solid bit of kit, as I had seen it before I bought it. It really is good, the only thing that confused me was there are no instructions, so I had to work it out for myself, but I got there in the end.
Click to expand...

But instead of getting angry hoarp001 took a second to figure it out.

I'm not trying give the adapter guys a free pass, but they are trying.
 
Last edited:
For Godsakes, include printed instruction. What would it cost? 25 cents tops. It would be a fraction of the amount of tree the box it's shipped in takes. Print it on the box. If you don't include them, people will print it when they finally search out what to print. So no branch is saved here. Print it on recycled paper. Genius huh? What about the electricity used trying to find instructions online, never mind the pain in my ass. Forcing people to go to a website to put it together is just plain wrong.

Sure, it's ordered online, but when you're on the field you need hardcopy. Hell, when your in your living room you should have hardcopy. This is getting really stupid. I can't tell you how many times I had to open Barry's book for the DVX, a Goodman guide for a Varicam or the BT1700 manual for my monitor. Most pros often carry the camera's manual on site. You don't always have internet or a computer with you. Nobody's asking for a book. Just a simple how to put it together manual. You know, like the Ikea instructions. Could you imagine if Ikea made you go to their site to put it together? Enough already and just print up a one or two sheet and call it day. But if you were really cool, you'd laminate it in a small 4 x 6 so someone can put it their kit, rain or sleet.

I can't believe after a couple years there's no manual. This is really busting my onions. I'm sorry, to chide or not chide is not the question. This is just down right stupid. I said it. Slay me.
 
Last edited:
Totally agree with Tim on the instructions being included. When I got my first adapter it came end of week and it took several days to get me "registered" on the user forum so that I could download the instructions. Wasted an entire weekend. Again I'll say, that I don't have that kind of time to waste. When I did get on the forum and posted my concern I got blasted by almost everyone saying that "most of us are tinkerers and like to figure this stuff out". That was from the moderator.
 
Tim Naylor said:
For Godsakes, include printed instruction. What would it cost? 25 cents tops. It would be a fraction of the amount of tree the box it's shipped in takes. Print it on the box. If you don't include them, people will print it when they finally search out what to print. So no branch is saved here. Print it on recycled paper. Genius huh? What about the electricity used trying to find instructions online, never mind the pain in my ass. Forcing people to go to a website to put it together is just plain wrong.

Sure, it's ordered online, but when you're on the field you need hardcopy. Hell, when your in your living room you should have hardcopy. This is getting really stupid. I can't tell you how many times I had to open Barry's book for the DVX, a Goodman guide for a Varicam or the BT1700 manual for my monitor. Most pros often carry the camera's manual on site. You don't always have internet or a computer with you. Nobody's asking for a book. Just a simple how to put it together manual. You know, like the Ikea instructions. Could you imagine if Ikea made you go to their site to put it together? Enough already and just print up a one or two sheet and call it day. But if you were really cool, you'd laminate it in a small 4 x 6 so someone can put it their kit, rain or sleet.

I can't believe after a couple years there's no manual. This is really busting my onions. I'm sorry, to chide or not chide is not the question. This is just down right stupid. I said it. Slay me.
Click to expand...

Wow, gotta love how you see some things and not others. You just wrote:

Tim Naylor said:
You're right. But it's been well over a year now. The hall pass on customer service and the printed manual waiver has expired.

I found the customer service in terms of things not working or adjustment that need to be made quite good for all three. They get back. They send you parts. It was rocky in the early days but much smoother now. I still had to summon the adjustment Gods (Timur) to figure out how to build my SG back in the day (8 months ago). When my LE arrived with a clear one sheet - Hallelullah! Had it running in five minutes.
Click to expand...

I said:
It looks like SG still doesn't send a manual.
Click to expand...
And below I put:

hoarp001 said:
Hi,

I got an email this morning to say my SG gear was ready, which was nice as it was about two weeks earlier than I was told originally. The GPS took me a really odd route but after I collected it and got home I could have a proper fiddle.

I knew it was already a good solid bit of kit, as I had seen it before I bought it. It really is good, the only thing that confused me was there are no instructions, so I had to work it out for myself, but I got there in the end.
Click to expand...

And I said:

But instead of getting angry hoarp001 took a second to figure it out.

I'm not trying give the adapter guys a free pass, but they are trying.
Click to expand...

You responded in that same thread to hoarp001 but you made no mention to his lack of manual comment, after that you come back here to berate Cinevate for emailing a manual link and providing a video?

Bizarre.
 
Thanks Tim and Joe for sharing (quite vigorously I might add!) your thoughts on the subject. I do take every opinion seriously, and I think you might conclude from our work in the service area that we have been listening very closely.

One of the typical jokes in the manuals world is the paper book you get with a typical PC motherboard. Yes it's paper, and yes it's a complete waste of it. We're trying to do better. Would a "quick start" sheet with basic setup points, and a DVD with the more detailed video/pdf files work? This is the model that is used pretty much by most computer software/hardware these days, and for me, it works. This is a general question for everyone. In the perfect manual world, every manufacturer would include the equivalent of a book like Barry Green's with their product.

Ultimately, we'd like to strike a balance that works well for everyone.
 
Dennis the quick setup sheet + dvd detailed tutorial works well. I dont think anyone's asking for a book. I mean, I never had any problems setting my brevis up from using the private forum stickies, but that doesnt mean I dont see the benefit in an included instruction/dvd.

Thumbs up from me.
 
I just put my entire brevis flip together with no manual and changed out my GG. I had no problems except with getting my nikon lens back off (which I'm still working on) If you understand how they work, I don't think they're too hard to setup. Having said that, a manual would have set me at ease while doing it. Every time I turned an allen wrench I was thinking "I hope I'm doing this right." In the end, It's all together. The hard part was more adjusting the rails than putting the flip together though. I just went online and looked at pictures and figured it out. Now if I had a shoot today, I would have been pissed, because I'm sure it would have taken half the time with the manual!
 
Sfoster, if you don't have access to our private owner's section...please set yourself up! www.cinevate.com/manuals. One of the eight video "university" segments deals with rails configuration. We see customers with varying levels of technical intuitiveness, and you likely rank at the upper end of that spectrum :-) Btw, the Nikon pin releases by pushing it rearward....it doesn't pull out!

We brought on a new team member today to help with our next big project. She's a wizard with communications, so I suspect she'll start with the quick start guides. The DVD's are already in progress.

Charlie, we do have an M2 user having good success with the flip, as predicted.
 
Last edited:
K, I spent a long time on the phone with DSC lab's Mike & Mike today. We're ramping up for a very extensive baseline session with the HV20, XH-A1, and HPX500. We'll be testing dynamic range, color calibration, resolution, lens edge to edge sharpness, and chromatic aberration.

One of the fascinating items we'll be exploring relates to observations that the XH-A1 is cleaner (CA) with our flip rig, than using the camera "bare".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top