Cinematography Question (its in there I swear)

I’m not sure this is the best place for this post, but as it doesn’t fit in any of the other forums, and cinematography is a main area of concern of mine in this post, I guess I’ll just go for it.

Here’s the deal. I’m a 21-year-old filmmaker who hasn’t made a film yet. I have several projects in development however, meaning screenplays that I’ve written of various lengths. I’ve written one screenplay for a full length feature that is at a place I’m comfortable calling “complete” which I hope to shoot sometime in the next few years, but I’ve also written some smaller/shorter projects that I hope to cut my teeth on. I promise they’re fully realized projects I’m passionate about.

I’ve been planning on buying a DVX for a long time now, because the advice I keep getting from anyone and everyone I talk to is “just get yourself a camera and shoot, shoot, shoot!” – the idea being to start putting some stuff together so I can develop a style of my own. The problem I keep bumping into is that I don’t work like that. Whenever I pick up a video camera and start shooting all I end up with is utter crap.

The way I do work is that I’ll think of an idea, type it out in brief in MS Word on my computer so I don’t forget it, and then think about it for a while (days/weeks/months) adding a little bit here and there. Eventually it’ll really get rolling and I’ll start churning out a legitimate script on Final Draft - along with (admittedly very poor) storyboards of the specific shots and scenes I have in my head while I’m writing so I don’t forget them and so I don’t clutter up my script with camera directions and stuff. Along the way I end up with tons and tons of loose papers with various idea about the project, outlines, drawings etc., etc.

I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m just not a DP, no matter how hard I try. A couple months back I did extensive research into cinematography, all the way from the basics right up into some of the more advanced stuff. I honestly did way more research and learning about it and put more effort into it than I ever did for anything all throughout school. My thinking was that since I will obviously not have very much money to work with on my movies, it would be beneficial for me to be like a Robert Rodriguez jack-of-all-trades literally shooting my own movies. Ridiculous amounts of time later I now have some pretty extensive knowledge of and a good grasp of the ideas of cinematography that I have absolutely no way of ever utilizing myself. I just can’t force it. As a DP, I suck. So much of filmmaking is technical, and I’m not technically inclined, and so many different aspects of filmmaking are art forms - be it cinematography, acting, sound, music - and I’m just not an artist.

My question to everyone here is this: I come here each and every day to check out the work people show here and I constantly find myself blown away first by the creativity and talent on display, but also by what can be achieved nowadays with a camera that doesn’t cost very much more than the consumer ones you can go grab at Best Buy. The idea I have been thinking about for how I want to produce my movies is to gather together a relatively small crew (but a sufficient one with smart, talented people making their art without me sticking my hands in and turning everything to utter poop) and cast, pay them as reasonably well as I can, with the goal being that everyone involved is there because they want to be, they want to make a great movie, and not for the money. And everyone will be in on the back end just in case anything ever becomes of a project too. I would rent the equipment as opposed to buying, thus getting not only the DVX100A’s I’d need but also all of the grip and lighting equipment and everything else needed to make a quality product. (Ignoring for a moment the fact that this is INSANELY naïve and touchy-feely) would any of you here be interested in getting involved in a project like this? Do you think this a horrible idea I should not even bother trying? Should I just cut my losses now, stop, drop & roll, and run away faster than the guys in Monty Python run from a flying cow?

I just don’t see why the “Hollywood system” of production can’t be *heavily* modified and used on a much, much smaller scale… Thoughts anyone?
- Eric
 
Re: Cinematography Question (its in there I swear)

First of all. You're 21. Don't get all stressed if what you are 'turing out' with a video camera is utter crap. Cinematography requires an education as much as the next job. There are rules and time-proven techniques that have been developed over the last 100 years that just work. It is possible that you just don't know the rules.

There are many books on the subject that can help you in this matter. Trust me, if any of us showed you the basics for shooting a scene of 2 people chatting you would probally go "Ooooohhh... I get it.". Now don't get me wrong. some people are just born with the talent while others have to learn it. You think your're turning out crap? Do you know how much goes into making a film? It's not just point and shoot. It's using and controlling lighting (a whole nutha' education), using special filters that can make your imagery just pop as well post work that can consist of Color Correction and FX to enhance your footage and the art of editing (yet another education).

The questions here are: Do you want to learn to become a DP? DO you want to Direct? DO you just want to write? Most of us seem to want it all while I personally just want to direct. But for me, in learning to become a DP (I've said this before) it will only serve to make me a better Director and to better communicate my needs to a DP.

Film is a collaborative medium. No one runs out, by themselves and shoots a film (I'm not talking about experimental work here or documentarys). Finding people you can work with that share this passion is in your benefit. When shooting, you can try mimicry or what people like to call appropriation ;). I always say, that once you know the rules of DP'ing, it is then that you can break them, manipulate them and use them in your own way.

You sound discouraged and this nedium can be very discouraging without the proper support channels. Don't worry about feature films and cast and crews that can recreate Spartacus. Concentrate on putting togther small, short films, experimentals, music videos, spec commericals, scene studies etc.

In time you will see where you excel and where you stumble. In time you will see what wroks, what comes natural and where you should concentrate your studies and focus.

Filmmaking can be technical and there is alot to learn, but do not get caught up in that mojo. Like any other tool(s) once you learn how and why they are used it will become second nature.

Damn, I just ranted.
 
Re: Cinematography Question (its in there I swear)

Sometimes, figuring out what you're not good at can be a beautiful thing. It frees you to play to your strengths. You sound like a writer/producer. As John mentioned filmmaking is a collaborative process and there are plenty of other folks out there that would love to take their roles in the technical positions that don't suit you.

Writing screenplays does not necessarily have anything to do with indie filmmaking. If you want to be a filmmaker you need scripts that you can actually produce and that are congruent with your available locations and resources.

Can you put together a small indie production company? Absolutely, but they can have rather short half-lives as your cast and crew get paying gigs. But there are people out there that have expertise and equipment and aspirations. Come up with a small project and advertise on mandy.com, a bunch of the DV forums, and at some local film departments--you *will* find a crew and cast. You might not have to rent anything. I'm working on an indie production and we didn't have to rent a single thing. We collectively had more equipment than we needed--four cameras in fact.

Some of us are trying to stay together as a loosely knit collective that will crew for each other's productions. Mini-DV, computers and the internet are making it happen. Finally, the workers have the means of (film) production :-).

You can make it happen and find people in your area that share your passion. Good luck!
 
Re: Cinematography Question (its in there I swear)

A couple things that might help you out. They helped me (im 21 and just starting out on the DVX as well).

1) Watch something that really inspires you and try to imitate it. Watch a movie you really liked and imitate a scene (with actors or without). Memorize camera movements, angles, etc. Completely copy it with the music score, lines, no lines... who cares! The first time i did this i was like WHOA i actually can create something cool! This will pump you up and motivate you. I think what creates lack of motivation and that willingness to "keep going at it" for most people is that they constantly see other peoples creative work as a downer for them since they have "so much to work up to." Copy copy copy! It helps, i swear!

2) Try to make connections with people. Try to get out there with people more experienced than you. Yes, this can be very difficult, but if you ever see that someone needs help even if its not for pay, you'll learn a heck of a lot. This board is an EXCELLENT starting ground for that. Before I met people like John Hudson and Shawn and Kev of ExFilms, I would have never known how to shoot a music video, etc. etc.

Dont get discouraged man. Sometimes i see peoples stuff on the DVX and it blows me away... but try to use it as a learning tool. Keep practicing. Nobody starts off perfect!

;D

EDIT: By the way, I want to see what your "utter crap" is. I think you should post it here so we can critique it. You may learn a lot!
 
Re: Cinematography Question (its in there I swear)

Dan is right on the money.

Also, Dan; you must be involved with the San Diego edition of the DVXUSER movie thingy. ;D
 
Re: Cinematography Question (its in there I swear)

Welcome.

My only advice is to do a bunch of small stuff first. Can you do a three minute commercial? If you are happy with the results, then you can do a 2-hour feature, because the storytelling skillz are the same; its just longer and the pacing is a bit different.

If you try to do a feature the first time out of the gate, you'll hate it, because by the end you'll have learned so much that the first stuff you shot will look like Sadaam's ass, even though you thought it was cool to start with.

Of course, I could be projecting... good luck with your projects. If you are worried about buying the DVX100 up front, well, rent it once or twice, and see if you can find someone who knows how to operate it. You will buy one after that, I guarantee it.
 
Re: Cinematography Question (its in there I swear)

John Hudson -

You mentioned good books.... Could you offer up some titles and authors?


Many Thanks!

Dave
 
Re: Cinematography Question (its in there I swear)

I have these:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...102-4103804-8903322?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...gy_img_2/102-4103804-8903322?v=glance&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t..._books_2/102-4103804-8903322?v=glance&s=books

The first one is great! I also think that Appropiation (copying!) is a great way to learn. Last week I watched SIGNS (The Opening sequence) and Paused every cut and diud quick storyboards and then went and shot the sequence in mimicry and you know what? It turned out amazingly filmlike. My wife and brother were laughing cause they said it looked perfect. Of course I cheated and copied shot for shot;

My point is...

I learned alot just from that lil excercise. Give it a try. Have a favorite scene in mind? Pause and watch, sketch out quick lil storyboards and mimic it and see what happens. Youll be pleasantly surpised!
 
Re: Cinematography Question (its in there I swear)

Hey John,

That sounds like a great exercise. Thanks for sharing. ;D
 
Re: Cinematography Question (its in there I swear)

:D

I was pleasantly pleased with the results and they showed why there are professionals and hacks (Im a hack... obviously). But in doing it, it opended my eyes.

I used to jam in a band (guitar) and taught myself how to play (like most people I assume?). I learned everything I know from one of two sources. Playing with other guitarist or GUITAR MAG TAB. I' learn Nirvana, Pearl Jam, STP, BEatles etc and once you know all of these things you use them in your own!

Pick a scene you ike and mimic it! :)
 
Re: Cinematography Question (its in there I swear)

Eric,

Sure it's intimidating to see how good some folks are with their camera. But so what? Unless you've spent a 100 million bucks no one is going to watch your movie for the cutting edge camera work.

Go watch Clerks, El Mariachi, Mean Streets, Rosemary's Baby, heck even Terminator (the first one). All these films had less than stellar cinematography. Some of those movies even had sound/sync problems. And you know what, no one cared. Becuase they were fun to watch anyways. Come to think of it, no one has ever told me they watch Friends because they like the camera work. ;)

Contrary to what you read on message boards, in make-your-own-movie books, in manufacturer's equpiment reviews, video maker magazine articles and ifcfilms.com, audiences make HUGE allowances for poor video/sound - as long as the story is good.

You don't need to hear this from an expert or read it somewhere to believe it. All you have to do is go to your local video store or library and watch a bunch of movies and you can prove it to yourself.

So if you like to write, and you insinuate you do, concentrate on writing a hell of a good story, then go rent a DVX, slap it on a tripod, point it in the general direction of your scene and don't worry about the rest.
 
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