Cinematography / Camera work in animation

[maxluther]

hey guys,
do you know any cinematography books mainly dealing with camera movement and framing? I'm mainly interested in the psychological aspects, like in which way specific camera movement/framing influences the viewer's experience.

some time ago i've read an interesting thread on cg talk about "is cinematography in animation different?"(http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=803200):

... I'm sure there are as many new ways of challangeing our perception as there are ways of putting colors on a canvas....

i think it's a pity that the discussion stopped so quickly, since this is a very interesting and challenging topic.


I mean there's basically everything possible with a virtual camera in 3D space. In most cases u might be "safe" using the baic rules of cinematography. But thinking of the physically impossible shots in panic room or even the bullet time sequences in Matrix I'm asking myself if the endless possibilities that we have now will rewrite / extend the rules.
do you guys have any opinion of that?
does anyone know if there's some literature or research going on in this field?

 

[Bonedog]

This is something I've been wondering about myself. You never see a DP credit on animated features.

As for books, I read one recently called Cinematic storytelling : the 100 most powerful film conventions every filmmaker must know by Van Sijll, Jennifer. I just picked it up at my community college library, turned out to be pretty descent. It gives a variety of examples of framing/movement (some obvious and some not so much) and talks about the psychological affects they have on the viewer.

 

[djkarn105]

For examples of cinematography in an animated film check out Wall-E or Gore Verbinsky's new film Rango. Roger Deakins was a consulting cinematographer on both.

The main difference when doing camera work in CG is that lighting and blocking sort of happen in reverse. When shooting live action you set up the lights, then place the camera and the actors where they look good.

With animation, it's the opposite, you place the characters, work out the blocking, then light each shot to the camera. It's sort of like an insane soundstage environment.

 

[Jordan Scott Price]

Deakins also consulted for the entire project of How To Train Your Dragon.

 

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

Previously the CGI development environment the modeling/rendering software had the 'virtual camera', and how objects were shaded, 'lit', etc. was pretty much up to the animators.

However, I've seen a couple of examples on the more recent behind the scenes material, of a computer/external system where a 'real' camera operator/DoP could control the virtual camera in the CGI world. This is similar to motion capture for the actors, where the camera operator controls the framing/positioning of the virtual camera via sensing equipment.

I don't know why it is only recently this 'idea' has occured to people... as sensing a manipulator in 3-d space, and transforming that into CGI generated 'views', has been part of the gaming world for quite some time...

But in any case, it now may become more appropriate to talk about a CGI DoP person.

 

[Snapper123]

With me, I want to dive into drawn animation in a few decades because I have a big number of animated scripts I've written (and I hate CG, I think it looks so goofy.) And really, I've always written animation and live action generally the same way. One difference is with animation, I've noticed with animated shows like Family Guy, the rule of thirds is always strictly applied, where in films, the proportions are a bit more loose set. But yeah, honestly, with all my scripts, I just follow lines of vision almost naturally, but I wish I had some sources to broaden my visions.

 

[maxluther]

@Bonedog
Thanks for your book suggestion. It's not really what i was looking for but it makes a good read and got interesting thoughts about specific shots in films. so thanks!

@djkarn105

For examples of cinematography in an animated film check out Wall-E or Gore Verbinsky's new film Rango. Roger Deakins was a consulting cinematographer on both.

Yes, "real life" cinematographers are more and more involved in animation productions. For Wall-E and other films the intention was to recreate a 'real world' camera, right? Ok, that's quite a challenge and that's what people have tried to do for a long time now.


What really interests me is how a film/animation production can really BENEFIT from a virtual camera and it's seemingly endless possibilities.

If some examples of good execution come to your mind I'd be more than happy to hear them!

@j1clark@ucsd.edu

... where a 'real' camera operator/DoP could control the virtual camera in the CGI world. ...

Yes, exactly. They used it in Productions like "Surfs Up", "Avatar" ... It's quite popular right now, giving cinematographers the feeling of being on a real film set.
What is quite interesting here is that in a late production stage u can still recapture some shots, shoot some additional close ups, etc... It gives u more freedom. For productions like Avatar, where motion capture of actors is involved this can be really useful because u shoot a scene once, say 'good bye' to your actors and take care of all the different shots alone.
But thinking of camera motion it's again a recreation of camerawork previously done in film. It's nothing new but in most productions probably the ideal way to go, right?

@Snapper123:

nd I hate CG, I think it looks so goofy.

ok i think it's not necessary to comment on this.

I've noticed with animated shows like Family Guy, the rule of thirds is always strictly applied, where in films, the proportions are a bit more loose set.

interesting, I've never thought about that.


If you guys know any VFX shots in film productions or animations where the virtual/3D camera is a real essential tool (story telling, resulting emotions, etc.) or has a real benefit I'd be glad to hear your opinions.