Cinema EOS Announcement on 19th Jan - EOS R5C
- Thread starter indiawilds
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I’m hoping that HDR will at the very least help with DR increases in Cinema cameras.
We’ve had 12stops since the Panavision Genesis in 2004, lol.
Where every other aspect of image quality has improved double triple or more and DR is still stuck under 14stops usable. And they got sensors up to 1/stops DR like almost from the beginning of digital cinema. It isn’t like they pushed and slaves to get to 12 compared to everything else.
And yet, every 4 fricking years there is some new spec or tech that has to happen before we get more DR, and we’re still in the resolution wars!
I swear, i am done with digital crap, and going to go back to film and rough it out in that old shitty alchemy that somehow still makes digital look like a play toy.
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you’ve opened pandora’s box
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
a couple of points..
i had a nikon d3 and the 12mp was enough resolution to make poster adverts the size of a lorry (its all about viewing distance).. as long as the whole frame was used
but I found the 12mp of the D3 not to have enough resolution after manipulation of the file..
a typical 'hotel interior' still would be shot on the 14mm and cropped and tombstone corrected in post.. that this point 12mp became 6.. not enough
..no reason that video should not also need such corrections and therefore to have 'spare' resoution at the point of aquisition
I obviously look down on reframing in post to correct 'on location error' but some applications require a reframe - typially tombestone correction.
My personal testing show tombstone correction to outperform T+S lenses easily
Greenscreen may also demand a higher capture resolutions.
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DR and 709.
It is certainly worth capturing more than the 7 stops of DR available in 709. One can either reproduce this whoe DR by using a flat image.. which will look terrible. Or one can push the whole captured DR into the narrow reproduction media by 'dodging and burning' using secondaries and a steep gamma curve
this process has been understood accepted and producing excellent imagery on low DR output media since the days of Ansel Adams.
i had a nikon d3 and the 12mp was enough resolution to make poster adverts the size of a lorry (its all about viewing distance).. as long as the whole frame was used
but I found the 12mp of the D3 not to have enough resolution after manipulation of the file..
a typical 'hotel interior' still would be shot on the 14mm and cropped and tombstone corrected in post.. that this point 12mp became 6.. not enough
..no reason that video should not also need such corrections and therefore to have 'spare' resoution at the point of aquisition
I obviously look down on reframing in post to correct 'on location error' but some applications require a reframe - typially tombestone correction.
My personal testing show tombstone correction to outperform T+S lenses easily
Greenscreen may also demand a higher capture resolutions.
----
DR and 709.
It is certainly worth capturing more than the 7 stops of DR available in 709. One can either reproduce this whoe DR by using a flat image.. which will look terrible. Or one can push the whole captured DR into the narrow reproduction media by 'dodging and burning' using secondaries and a steep gamma curve
this process has been understood accepted and producing excellent imagery on low DR output media since the days of Ansel Adams.
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love it!
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when you start getting more familiar with it, you’ll have to maybe start a thread a or something. and as always, hear your thoughts about it as a tool or paint brush.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Days before I had it, I watched two videos from some random Joe on YouTube (I will actually link him to give him credit because he deserves it) and both parts were probably the best camera tutorials I have ever seen. He literally goes over the entire GUI and its functionality and every single menu option in the camera.
I felt like I had already owned it for 10 years. When I got it, I knew everything about it, even the small, annoying things that I wouldn't have at first like having to turn on AF in the menu for it to work or turn on a special menu option for the camera to charge batteries (it's off by default).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=751n5DeE0hk
The silly irony about all of this for me is that for months I cried how underwhelming so many videos on YouTube from it were (that hasn't changed, I still think that), but I will go on the record to say this is the greatest camera I have ever owned.
I felt like I had already owned it for 10 years. When I got it, I knew everything about it, even the small, annoying things that I wouldn't have at first like having to turn on AF in the menu for it to work or turn on a special menu option for the camera to charge batteries (it's off by default).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=751n5DeE0hk
The silly irony about all of this for me is that for months I cried how underwhelming so many videos on YouTube from it were (that hasn't changed, I still think that), but I will go on the record to say this is the greatest camera I have ever owned.
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I had a friend in sales read dvxuser once, and his mind sees our comments so differently, he immediately started thinking in terms of how to use our needs as a sales opportunity, and he really got distracted by 8K and high iso numbers, like a kid at christmas.
Basically he saw that if we wanted something he would find a way to thwart it, and he would only focus on the lowest common denominator. the extra frills and bonus buys were cheap crap i was not interested in and it gave him great joy to think of all those cool things, but he was pretty far off the mark as far as what is cool for a professional user. But in a weird way his choices fit in line with what actually gets made.
But because he is my friend, he began to understand the difference between real cameras for work and the stuff that catches headlines on CES or Bestbuy.
Basically he saw that if we wanted something he would find a way to thwart it, and he would only focus on the lowest common denominator. the extra frills and bonus buys were cheap crap i was not interested in and it gave him great joy to think of all those cool things, but he was pretty far off the mark as far as what is cool for a professional user. But in a weird way his choices fit in line with what actually gets made.
But because he is my friend, he began to understand the difference between real cameras for work and the stuff that catches headlines on CES or Bestbuy.
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Teddy_Dem
Well-known member
That's interesting to hear from you NorBro as not only have you used/owned a wide array of cameras, you have been one of the most vocal users about good autofocus and jumped on it earlier than most others. When you say "greatest camera I have ever owned" is this mainly from an image quality perspective? How about the usability of the camera?
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Will depend on the type of shooter. I know a lot of people that would just fall into something R5C due to the FF35 and 8K.
FF35 give them shallower DoF and better zoom ranges on lower cost L series F2.8 and F4 rated zooms
8K raw is a bragging point for selling and making. they can do vertical with widescreen pulls or vice a versa, even though that rarely plays out as well as clients might like, it still gets clients to commit to you instead of someone else.
For the more youtube focused people, the R5C may end up being their 8K content gimmic. Go out into the forest and shoot 8K, edit together with calm piano music and get a million views. It must be nice.
Also, I cannot think of a better action cam. It’s small! The readout speed in s35 is insane. The 8K raw can also give post framing options for a “unmanned” camera. And at $6K for a basic kit, they are expendable compared to “real” cameras. Canon’s only miss was lacking additional mounting screws or at least a anti twist hole for the tripod mount. really stupid miss by Canon. but overall still a compelling option to replace the 5Dmk3 type, and to go head to head with the Komodo.
The C70 is a bit more serious, and feels really nice for light weight video centric work that could go to broadcast or the big screen. There is a slight A-cam replacement feel to it. It obviously inherits some awkward mirrorless features, but the internal raw/ND and on body XLR and DGO cannot be ignored. Really good concept, with bad execution and a little too off the shelf in some refards to appeal to some old timers or top of the crop people. It looks as if they took the boards from a mirriroless camera for the I/O and image processing and slapped a C3003 sensor unit into it. So we got all the side facing ports. But i feel we have enough modern conveniences to make it work. Highly appealing camera to me.
Teddy_Dem
Well-known member
I certainly agree that the R5C is a really great release for Canon, and they are kind of on a really good 2 year run with their recent releases. But as I have mentioned before, the best part of this camera is what it does to the market. It costs $4500 and shoots 8K 60P RAW internally! For the way I like to shoot/work, micro-HDMI is the backbreaker for me. Maybe a great camera cage that implements a well designed and very sturdy micro to full HDMI port solves that. A little bit more dynamic range would have been great as well, but I have used worse.
indiawilds
Veteran
I refuse to buy a camera that doesn't have EVF. That is why I didn't buy the C70.
R5C is compact and has its use cases for shooting in public. It will attract less attention. Also, its small size will be big help for many projects. I am planning to go on a strenuous exploration by foot. R5C would have been perfect for that trip. C300 series would be a bit tough to carry for that trip, since I have to carry all my stuff.
When needed one can add the tascam audio unit for recording audio.
I am planning a shift fully to the RF mount. R5C plus any C500 series type in RF mount in future should work well.
No camera will fit 100% of your requirements. All I try to see is what I can do with this camera. Hopefully will get one soon to shoot.
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Very true.
The trend leaving EVF’s is unsettling. It is great to have a day bright LCD, but when shooting in the dark, with these high iso cameras, i hate having my chevy chase lit up like the empire state. And the option of strapping a diopter to the C70 flippy is disconcerting to say the least.
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Whenever Canon releases a new camera i think of their design engineers being similar to this:
Rather crude, and possibly offensive content
The people in the crowd sound like dvxuser too.
“Game changer”
“would anyone use it, it is horrifyingly bad”
“well, it’s better than XYZ we had before.”
“That’s true”
Rather crude, and possibly offensive content
The people in the crowd sound like dvxuser too.
“Game changer”
“would anyone use it, it is horrifyingly bad”
“well, it’s better than XYZ we had before.”
“That’s true”
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NorBro
Major Contributor
Teddy, you know me, I'm kind of dramatic, lol.
My feelings about AF haven't changed and will never change, and I will likely be renting a little AF camera until my last breath, but the RED has inspired me again, truly.
I have been so bored and so underwhelmed with cameras these past few years. I've had more fulfillment answering people's questions on DVXuser about them than using them.
Two years ago, the R5 had me more hyped than possibly anything ever (I really thought she was the one) and it just ultimately was not what I imagined it to be. And sadly, I don't think Canon cameras' IQ will ever be what I want them to be. [I do love everything I've bought and used in different ways, but the honeymoons usually end quickly.]
As far as "greatest"...that's really subjective depending on how my day is going, ha. Right now, it's the greatest because it has me head over heels with taking [motion] pictures again. Maybe sometimes that's just as important as paper specs, or even more.
[I owned a Raven in 2017 so it's not my first camera from the company, but I was a little too immature to have that camera then, plus I needed to put like an additional $4,000 to use it and it just gave me a headache thinking about it.]
With all of that said, this camera purchase is a bit different than the others because it was actually more of a marketing business decision for myself, and my feelings about it really caught me by surprise.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
one drawback of the komodo