Cineform codec

T

Tom Pauncz

New member
Just installed the latest free NEO player in order to get the updated Cineform codec. On another forum the version was said to be 3.59, but what was installed is 3.3.0.198, dated Sept 7, 2007.

I am a long time Vegas user and am experimenting with m2t files. Encoding an m2t file with the newly installed v3.3 codec, the intermediate avi file will not play back correctly on the latest Windows Media Player, v11.

Does anyone from Cineform know where the 3.59 codec is?

The install file I used for the Neo player was NeoPlayerV330b164-080430.zip.

Hope someone can help me solve the mystery of the 'wrong' (?) codec.

TIA,
Tom
:(
 
Vegas has licensed a very old version of Cineform and so things are kinda incompatible right now. BTW, the Player is not the latest version either. So basically, someone can be stuck with three cineform versions right now, all kinda incompatible with each other: the current official cineform encoding version, the player-only codec which is older, and Vegas' which is even older.

So don't try to view Cineform with WMP. Use Vegas for Cineform from beginning to end. Cineform is not a viewing codec anyway, it's an intermediate one.
 
Not quite. The codec verisons and package versions are different number systems. 3.3 is package verison, like NEO 3.3 and Prospect 3.3, the codec itself is up to 3.5.x/3.6.x in release and 3.7.x in beta and any 3.x decoder will play any CineForm HD file every created. There are no compatibility issues, as a newer codec will always play all older files. The issues is a Vegas bug, that make Vegas use a version old decoder even when a newer one is installed. Vegas will use v2.8 and fail to play 3.x file -- an obvious bad move. To prevent the Vegas bug, rename the cfhd.dll to cfhdold.dll with the Program Files/Sony Vegas Pro directory.
 
On the contrary, Eugenia. The cineform codec makes an excellent viewing/playback codec. It works MUCH better than the native m2t or mxf files.
 
M2T and MXF are not viewing/playback codecs either. They are all on the edge of delivery-codec in terms of bitrate and they have more in common and usage as intermediate codecs instead. Sure, there is mpeg2 in Blu-Ray, but the bitrate is not as high and the intermal format is not exactly the same as m2t. If you are going to talk about playback codecs, that means "delivery codecs", then we talk about h.264 and XViD. The way cineform, mxf, m2t, mts are used, are mostly for intermediate usage, not delivery. The fact that "they can be viewed on a media player by mom and dad" doesn't change that fact.
 
MXF isn't a codec at all; it's just a wrapper. Any codec can be used inside it.

But .m2t is what's currently used for most HD broadcast, and it can be set to a wide range of bitrates.
 
I never said that such codecs are not used in broadcasting (and Comcast only uses between 10 and 16mbps anyway). What I said was that at 25mbps m2t, that was MEANT for intermediate usage. And same goes for Cineform too. No person who knows what he's doing, would want a 25mbps or 50mbps file just to view a random video. It's a waste of space, and I always strive for optimization of my storage space. I only encode in m2t/cineform when I want to edit or archive something. Someone would much prefer a 5mbps 720p h.264 file. Personally, I don't even bother re-encoding the final in 1080p, because 720p is good enough for me. At least that's how I am.
 
David Newman said:
The codec verisons and package versions are different number systems. 3.3 is package verison, like NEO 3.3 and Prospect 3.3, the codec itself is up to 3.5.x/3.6.x in release
Click to expand...

David,
Thanks for your response. If you look at my initial post, I showed the package name from which I installed the free player. I can assure you the codec installed, according to the date of the DLL is, in fact, v3.3.

Also, in my case at least, I have to disagree with your Vegas statement. I am on Vegas Pro 8.0b and the codec that showed was v3.3, installed with the free Neo player.

From NEO, codec was in ../Windows/system32 and the Vegas version, in the plug-ins directory, was still there as well. Easy to fall back, if needed.

So, my question still remains. Why didn't I get the latest codec? Am I misunderstanding something???

Thanks,
Tom
 
Tom...

Sony/Vegas implementation of the Cineform Intermediate, CFHD, is problemmatic. Sony only licensed that one version of CFHD. They never licensed any updates. Therefore, they bundle an out of date codec with their software distribution.

Eugenia....

Hollywood snobbishness aside, I'm not a ma and pa operation. Customers want smooth playback. Cineform plays back much better than m2t, simply because it is less stress on the CPU. Larger file size is the trade off. Given the cost of storage space, these days, it really is a non-issue. Simply because it isn't a Hollywood standard doesn't make it unworthy, AFAIK, anyway.
 
"cuervo"
I am well aware that SONY bundles an old version. That's why I installed the free NEO player - to get an updated codec; 3.59 is advertised, but 3.3 installs with the May 1st released free player.
 
Eugenia Loli-Queru said:
What I said was that at 25mbps m2t, that was MEANT for intermediate usage.
Click to expand...

I don't follow -- MPEG-2 was designed to be an output format. Long-GOP is fine for that, provided you have sufficient bitrate. It's even adequate for acquisition if you don't plan to do anything but record and play back. It's the editing stage -- where the intermediary aspect would be in play -- where it's most vulnerable.
 
It doesn't matter technically. What it matters is that a 25mbps file is meant for intermediate usage. I am not talking about mpeg2 in general. Of course and mpeg2 is a delivery format, when used with a logical bitrate. But when you use 25 mbps, then in my book, it stops being delivery grade and becomes a bastardized kind between delivery and intermediate.

I know a lot of people who use their PS3s to playback m2t directly from their HV20. I refuse to do that. It's storage going wasted. I always re-encode in h.264 MP4 at 5mbps.
 
Very interesting and useful discussion, but it still doesn't answer my original question.

Where is the 3.59 CFHD codec??
Tom
 
> Where is the 3.59 CFHD codec??

If you are talking about the player version of the codec, ask Cineform. They probably don't have enough engineering resources in updating their free player every month, so they might be updating the player once a year or so. It's common in most engineering houses to first cater for products that bring food to the table.
 
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