Choosing a mic for inconspicuously capturing people near subject

J

jonleerichfilm

Member
I’m looking for a microphone that can capture my main acting subject while also capturing the vocal reactions of those around him. It can’t be a boom or anything like that because it needs to be far away from the camera at times and much more inconspicuous.

I’m not making prank videos like this but this is an example of what I’m talking about (20 secs in)

https://youtu.be/ppA3r9NfkAI

How would I go about doing this?
 
Maybe an omnidirectional microphone riding on his foot or pant cuff or pants pocket so it can capture their vocals without being overpowered by his? I'm no audio engineer, but it seems like having the actor carry the mic will be the best way of getting a mic close to them. Unless you can have the sound recordist hanging out nearby with a shotgun mic concealed in a bag?
 
Also not an audio engineer, but when one of my recorders failed in a short, I just used the sound coming from the lav of one of the actors and it was "fine". Also a friend of mine directly only wired one actor for some scenes and had all dialogue coming from that one lav and it was also "fine".
 
I would be surprised if they weren't omni lavs. I own 18 lavs (currently) and only have two directional lavs. I only use them if there's a ton of ambient noise or potential issues with phase cancellation (they're kinda of a hassle, esp if the wearer turns moves their head).
 
Omni lav 99% certain. even long shotguns are useless at that distance and the clarity is pretty high - so it's close miking. I'm guessing the top or middle button - you can hear (or actually not hear) things like people's foot falls or other sounds in the area - no wind in the trees, no distant car noise - things shotguns always capture to a degree.
 
The only issue with using an omni lav for both their vocals is that if it's rigged close to his mouth (on his chest or wherever) and they're both talking at the same time, the wearer is going to be far louder than whoever he's talking to. So maybe he's wearing 2 mics - one on his chest and one farther from his mouth
 
Most conversations one person talks at a time. The main issue you can hear in the prank video is the person wearing the lav the quality of their voice is different (deeper) than the other person. Actually the other person sounds more natural. Ideally it would be better to have each person miced up otherwise you .
 
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Peter C. said:
Most conversations one person talks at a time. The main issue you can hear in the prank video is the person wearing the lav the quality of their voice is different (deeper) than the other person. Actually the other person sounds more natural. Ideally it better to have each person miced up otherwise you live with short comes of just one mic.
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So does that mean his mic placement was too close to himself? Where would be a good place to put the Omni mic on my subject if I want a natural sound as well as to capture others? Is it worth strapping to lavaliers on the subject? I can’t really go about putting a lavalier on the other people he takes to. I also don’t want him holding a microphone.
 
Peter C. said:
Most conversations one person talks at a time. The main issue you can hear in the prank video is the person wearing the lav the quality of their voice is different (deeper) than the other person. Actually the other person sounds more natural. Ideally it better to have each person miced up otherwise you live with short comes of just one mic.
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well, in that particular prank video, he's laughing over the other person talking. I don't know how they mic'd that video, but simultaneous speaking could be a big issue, even if it's intermittent or the wearer is just saying "Right." now and then. Or if he coughs or sneezes. It could end up being a really loud cough if your levels are set for the other person. You'd probably have to mix it down for that moment. There are definitely potential issues.
 
jonleerichfilm said:
So does that mean his mic placement was too close to himself? Where would be a good place to put the Omni mic on my subject if I want a natural sound as well as to capture others? Is it worth strapping to lavaliers on the subject? I can’t really go about putting a lavalier on the other people he takes to. I also don’t want him holding a microphone.
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Might help if you tell us what the actual circumstance is because that determines your approach. For example in a wedding it is usually sufficient to mic the groom to capture both the bride and groom because they're so close to each other. For an interview the two subjects might be too far from each other. Whatever approach you want test it out first before film day and you'll get your own answers instead of speculating on a forum.

One of the more important issues you haven't brought up is proper lav micing technique, especially concealed. There are a few good Youtube videos.
 
That bump between the top two buttons is most likely the lav. The wearer would have sounded better with the lav lower, and that'd make it easier to match his and his victim's sound. His tracks could have been tweaked a bit in post, but for this gag it's close enough.

I don't know what you're planning (no worries), but think if you'll need appearance releases for the other people. For their image, perhaps not if they're on public land (no expectation of privacy on sidewalks, for example). But if you're recording their voice... Anyway, that's a different issue and easy to research and make a decision on.

Have fun.

lavlump.jpg
 
One last question for everyone here. Do any of you understand the difference between a proximity or transparent lavalier? Which one would suit my need of picking someone up nearby the subject in a natural way?
 
Peter C. said:
Might help if you tell us what the actual circumstance is because that determines your approach. For example in a wedding it is usually sufficient to mic the groom to capture both the bride and groom because they're so close to each other. For an interview the two subjects might be too far from each other. Whatever approach you want test it out first before film day and you'll get your own answers instead of speculating on a forum.

One of the more important issues you haven't brought up is proper lav micing technique, especially concealed. There are a few good Youtube videos.
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Thanks Peter. It will be a lot of interaction with people in public. It's a comedy channel... not pranks exacatly because those in the video will be aware of the cameras but also not the kind of thing where I will have time to mic each person separately. Also we will get permission and consent from everyone involved.
 
Jim Feeley said:
That bump between the top two buttons is most likely the lav. The wearer would have sounded better with the lav lower, and that'd make it easier to match his and his victim's sound. His tracks could have been tweaked a bit in post, but for this gag it's close enough.

I don't know what you're planning (no worries), but think if you'll need appearance releases for the other people. For their image, perhaps not if they're on public land (no expectation of privacy on sidewalks, for example). But if you're recording their voice... Anyway, that's a different issue and easy to research and make a decision on.

Have fun.

View attachment 142476
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Thank you for the tips. Yes... I think the mic should be further from him. Also I think he may have a proximity mic on? Perhaps it would be worth looking in a transparent lavalier? These terms are all new to me and actually I just posted another post asking about them...

And yes about getting permission. We are not filming a hidden prank video in this way. People on frame will be aware of the cameras and we will ask and recieve permission before using anything from anyone featured.
 
I checked the link - and I'm happy with transparent - as in they mean uncoloured - clean mics. That's what all good mics should be, but omni mics do NOT have proximity effect and I don't think I have ever heard a manufacturer use this tone. Omni wavs sound pretty much the same no matter where they are put, as long as they aren't too far from the mouth. Some wavs like Sennheiser MKE-2's work well clipped on, hidden in hair lines or even attached to a ear loop or boom. Never heard Sennheiser refer to them as proximity mics, because they aren't?

I don't see how that set on the AT site makes any sense. Cardioids have proximity effect and omnis - because they are pressure operated, don't. Weird!
 
paulears said:
Well - in all my years I've never heard the term transparent or proximity lav. Sorry.
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It's a set of made up terms from an article on the topic. - https://www.studentfilmmakers.com/s...and-rigging-by-fred-ginsburg-c-a-s-ph-d-mbks/

Quoting the article:

"Which brings us up to the present. Proximity vs. Transparent Lavaliers (terms coined by the author) Modern lavaliers can be described as being either “Proximity” or “Transparent”." He goes on to describe what those terms mean for the article.
 
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