China Ball System 1.0

mentatDUKE said:
Oh really? Why's that?
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because coolight bulbs are specifically made for film and video. High CRI (renders truer colours) and no flicker.
the ones you're looking on are normal bulbs (for gyms and such )that have low CRI and flicker at certain shutter speeds.

So for 10 bucks extra u get some really high quality bulbs

edit: ur lights also have a high CRI on closer inspection...so thats good. not as high as the coollights but still good. I duno about the flicker though.
 
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I disagree. These bulbs don't flicker and they have a very high CRI. Also, it's not 10 bucks extra. Add in shipping from China and you can't cost justify the Cool Lights. I really wanted to buy from them, but couldn't get the numbers to work.

Just saw you edited your post, so no worries.
 
jls4 said:
Definately post the pics. I've been looking into the CFLs myself, and even wondering if China Balls are needed since the CFL is naturally soft.
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Well, remember that softness is a function of the relative sizes between source and subject. At practical distances any China ball is much larger compared to a face, say, than any CFL, hence, casts much softer shadows.
 
mentatDUKE said:
Oh really? Why's that?
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The bulb you listed is 5000K compared to Cool Lights 5600K which mean that it s more uniform to industry standard and the CRI of the bulb you list is 84 compared to the Cool Lights 90.

May seem like a small difference but there is actually a big difference when it comes to it. These bulbs with a low CRI value usually have a higher green spike which means that you need to correct them with a gel. Try putting a correcting gel on a china ball. Not easy.

I have bulbs like the ones you suggest, probably from the same factory and they are really green when you compare them to regular tungsten or Flo high CRI bulbs. Even when I try to color correct with a gel it is really hard to get a close match. In fact even with every fractional grade of minus green at my disposal and numerous combinations, I could not get an exact match. I gave up trying to use them.

If you are only using these bulbs, and color balancing to them, you may be OK as long as there is no other source of light other than ambient. Or, if you are not that picky or the scene does not call for really good lighting or you want a look that is a little off, or have the ability to color correct in post, then it may be worth it to you to save a couple of bucks.

The Cool Lights bulbs are going to be easier and more applicable in the long run because of their color temperature and higher CRI.

I just know that when I started out to build my lighting kit, I went the DIY "Low cost" route and ended up having to get better fixtures and bulbs because the DIY and low cost stuff really ended up costing me much time in the long run because it did not work that well and I ended up having to buy the real deal and if I had just bought the real stuff that had better quality first I would have saved money and time. So sometimes when you think your saving money, you're not really.

I ended up with a bunch of DIY and work lights and bulbs that I would never bring to any location now because they don't really cut it and they don't show me as a pro. They also have no re-sale value and good lights can always be sold with a pretty fair return.

But if pro or semi-pro stuff is just too costly for the budget and if the other lights work for you, then that is all that really matters.

Just my experience, and it might not be applicable to yourself or others. We are all individuals. All that really matters is that you shoot your vision even if it's in front of the refrigerator with the door open for light.
 
Bulb holders for transport

Bulb holders for transport

Hey Richard,

I see your still doing great work. I have 1 question. Has anyone developed a safe housing for transporting these bulbs from job to job. I'm really curious.

Thanks

Cool Lights said:
Our 3200K bulbs are color correct and CRI 90:

http://www.coollights.biz/cl20032-cool-lights-200w-3200k-high-softbox-bulb-p-85.html

As well as the 5600K version:

http://www.coollights.biz/cl20056-cool-lights-200w-5600k-high-softbox-bulb-p-83.html

So the 3200K do exist, just a bit harder to find.
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Thanks Kelly and GRENCH for your kind words. We do have a carrying case that these come with. They are soft foam lined whereas most of the other bulbs like the one mentioned here generally ship in a simple styrofoam lined box which I would never do--styrofoam is way too hard to be shipping such a bulb in. Our carrying box is inserted in foam end caps and put in another box. Kind of our own overkill on making sure the bulbs get to customers. Its a big package but you need air space and padding around the bulbs when shipping them.

The Maxlite bulb being recommended here was the first 200w bulb I ordered back in 2005 when I first started down the road to this business. Not a bad bulb, but 2900K and 5000K aren't optimal color temps. And, of the first two I ordered, one was broken. I vowed we were going to minimize that kind of thing as much as possible with our packaging and that's what we did.
 
Hmm. I'd like to do a test between 5000 and 5600 bulbs. I've been using the MaxLites and they seem to work really great. The CRI difference doesnt seem to be an issue either. If money was no object, I admit I would DEFINITELY go with the Cool Lights. In fact I was strongly considering them for a while.

I'm skeptical about the alleged quality disparity though.

The problem with buying from Cool Lights is the shipping. The subtotals are within the same ballpark from the two retailers.

Subtotal for 6 bulbs from Cool Lights - $474
Subtotal for 6 bulbs from LightBulbEmporium - $414

Not a big difference.

Shipping 6 bulbs from Cool Lights - $257.81
Shipping 6 bulbs from LightBulbEmporium - $7.89

Ouch.

Total price difference for bulbs with slightly higher temp and CRI - $309.92

Seems a bit much. Especially when this is all due to shipping. If they can get their shipping costs under control I would buy from them exclusively. They have outstanding service and a great reputation. Not to mention excellent products.
 
Thats because Fedex Home or Ground wasn't showing up for whatever reason--probably the link to that quoting system is temporarily down. Fedex Ground and Home are a separate division and sometimes that happens. The option you showed above is Fedex Express 3 Day Air Saver so of course its more expensive than Ground. Ground would definitely be less than what you showed but not $7.98 either. Perhaps around $86 for 6 bulbs is my guess.

But in any case, on packages this big, since we do make them big to protect them, we are hit with a "dimensional weight" charge and it isn't $7.98 like the other company's shipping. They perhaps roll that overhead into the price of the bulb itself. However they can do that is their business of course, but I'm not in a position to ship 6 bulbs for $7.98 and take the loss on that. We are serving a much smaller and specialized subset of the lighting world, specifically video/film lighting, so our market is not as large as someone selling commercial light bulbs and therefore may not have the volume negotiated shipping rates they do. And I have no idea what their labor situation is or how they can afford that, but we have employees/contractors shipping packages and that costs money.

Thus, if you want to go purely on shipping rates, yes they are a better deal.
 
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Richard, the only method available to me is home delivery (2 days) $27 for one. I can wait, why no ground option? Where are they coming from?
 
slondon said:
Richard, the only method available to me is home delivery (2 days) $27 for one. I can wait, why no ground option? Where are they coming from?
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Well they try to be smart in that software and figure out if you are giving a residence or a business. Ground is considered to be for businesses and Home is the "Ground" method used to deliver to residences. But they are both ground really. They ship from Reno, NV.
 
Cool Lights said:
Well they try to be smart in that software and figure out if you are giving a residence or a business. Ground is considered to be for businesses and Home is the "Ground" method used to deliver to residences. But they are both ground really. They ship from Reno, NV.
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Okay, I'm in a neighboring state and less than 500 miles away and it's to a residence. Man, I get an awful lot of stuff sent to me and pay shipping and handling but $27 for ground service? How is that even possible? That's both an annoyance and a deal sourer for me and I was going to try one.
 
Yeah, my sentiments exactly. Heck i'd even go with USPS if that's the issue. The outrageous shipping is what led me to create my own china ball system.
 
Yes, the shipping does seem to make these particular bulbs cost more and it may be difficult for some to justify the cost, but putting the bulbs and shipping cost problems aside for the moment, isn't it really an unusual and positive experience that you can actually communicate with the owner of a company directly to give feedback and get answers?

Try doing that with Lowell or LitePanels, etc. So, if these bilbs don't work out because of shipping costs, keep Richard and his lights in mind for the next purchase. We need to help keep him in business so he can continue to make more great products at reasonable prices.

Even if you don't buy from Richard, you benefit by having him around because his products keep the other companies looking back over their shoulder's and will force them to be more competitive.
 
Thanks for your kind words Kelly. We're also sponsoring this board which the other company posted by the OP isn't. In other words, without sponsors, there wouldn't be a place to post about "China Ball 1.0" (this should be called 1.1 by the way as I already posted about this particular Maxlite bulb in China balls 4 years ago on this very board) as Jarred and Jason do require advertising fees to run this site and that's what companies like ours and the other sponsors here are doing. So its kind of a symbiotic relationship between members, board owners and product providers. We've been supporting this board for over 3 years now with our advertising fees. It would be nice for the other company to advertise here also and support the board so we're all on even footing, but that's another issue.

You can perhaps always find some particular product for less or an equivalent if you try hard enough. And if we lowered the price, there would still be someone bitching its too much; so we just price things like we think they should be priced and we also charge the shipping we need to for support of that "cost center" for lack of a better term. Advertising and charging the costs you need to in order to stay in business is just Business 101.

The bottom line is literally the bottom line so product + shipping = what you'll pay and what you should look at. If one product is more and you don't see the differences then you buy the other product if you are simply cost driven and no other considerations come into play. As far as I'm concerned, there are differences, if you don't care about or perceive the differences then that's your business.
 
Cool Lights said:
Thanks for your kind words Kelly. We're also sponsoring this board which the other company posted by the OP isn't. In other words, without sponsors, there wouldn't be a place to post about "China Ball 1.0" (this should be called 1.1 by the way as I already posted about this particular Maxlite bulb in China balls 4 years ago on this very board) as Jarred and Jason do require advertising fees to run this site and that's what companies like ours and the other sponsors here are doing. So its kind of a symbiotic relationship between members, board owners and product providers. We've been supporting this board for over 3 years now with our advertising fees. It would be nice for the other company to advertise here also and support the board so we're all on even footing, but that's another issue.

You can perhaps always find some particular product for less or an equivalent if you try hard enough. And if we lowered the price, there would still be someone bitching its too much; so we just price things like we think they should be priced and we also charge the shipping we need to for support of that "cost center" for lack of a better term. Advertising and charging the costs you need to in order to stay in business is just Business 101.

The bottom line is literally the bottom line so product + shipping = what you'll pay and what you should look at. If one product is more and you don't see the differences then you buy the other product if you are simply cost driven and no other considerations come into play. As far as I'm concerned, there are differences, if you don't care about or perceive the differences then that's your business.
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1. I do find it quite wonderful that you have given so freely over the years of your knowledge and experience in the very areas that interest so many of us in lighting. I've even had private email exchanges with you which is absolutely unique, in my experience. Thank you.

2. Yes, you have to charge what you have to to make a go of business or there isn't one. However, marketing 101 tells you that the game is partly the cold hard facts and partly perception. I'm turned off by shipping charges like this because I have a lot of experience buying stuff here and there and these charges are simply far from the norm. Nothing turns people off more than somebody on eBay who advertises low prices but is clearly making it up with shipping charges that are way above the real, reasonable costs of packing and shipping. IMO you would be better off to charge ten bucks more for the product - who can know what 5600K and a high CRI can really be worth - and ten bucks less for the shipping because almost everyone has a good sense of what appropriate shipping and handling costs are.

My $0.02 but I started, ran and sold a company that started with a blank slate, finished its first year with annualized revenues of $1M and grew from there. Everybody wants you to succeed which means charging what you have to to make a profit but your otherwise low prices for the goods shouldn't be accompanied by shipping prices that stand out as much higher than usual.

Pure opinion, of course. Anyway, thanks very much for who you are, what you're doing and your generosity with your time and smarts. I mean that.
 
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