Cheap HMI (I know, I know)

T

tommygdawg

Well-known member
-EDIT-
For folks interesed in picking up one of these lights but not sure what to do or don't have the time to read this whole thread, here's the TL;DR version. I decided to buy the 1.2kw CAME-TV HMI. As of this edit, I've had it for about a month now and love it. There isn't much in the way of reviews on this light so I decided to do a video review myself. You can find it here:

I also have to give Dennis Hingsberg (goes by starcentral on here) a shoutout. He originally recommended me to photolight and has also been very happy with their 575 watt HMI, so that's two people happy with them!

-END EDIT-
Hey, all

So, I know this automatically is a no-no, but I have extenuating circumstances. Closest rental houses in my area are around 2 hours away and the websites are all very sketchy (or don't have the particular light I'm looking for). So, for now, I feel as though a better option would be to pick up a cheap HMI to learn with and then later on I can advance to driving out of town to rent an Arri or Mole, etc. if I really need one.

So, all that said, what are your experiences with cheap HMI lighting? For example:

Chuang Ying
Came-TV
Or, anything on Alibaba.

Would be grateful to know all ya'lls thoughts. I'm mainly just terrified of HMI, having always been a Tungsten and LED guy. Put me at ease!
 
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China is still a wild west where you have components that "look" legit and work legit for a period of time but don't last. So you have lights with fresnel that's not made out of heat-resistant glass (thus they break), knobs that are not made out long-lasting plastic (so they turn to dust), cheap capacitors (or capacitors placed in all the wrong place destroying their longevity), important structural parts made out of all wrong material... List goes on. HMI are very complex lights. VERY! So someone really knowledgeable needs to build them/reverse engineer them.

So as David above suggest, your best bet is to buy used.
Arris or K5600 being top of the line.
Mole and Desisti also very good but not that desirable (Mole as they don't have brand recognition in HMIs and Desisti because they are bulky).
LTM used to be very good but now that they are out of business spare parts are VERY difficult to get and you WILL need spare parts (all my 9 HMIs are LTMs).

You should be able to get used 575 package for around $1200-1500 and 1.2 package for $1500-2000.
 
Roger that, thanks for the feedback, guys. Looks as though I'll be avoiding the Chinese HMI, and honestly a lot of them are around the same price as a used Arri it seems. Any advice where else I can keep an eye out for a deal, besides Ebay and these forums?
 
It's worth looking at the Hive Plasma Wasp. It's a 275w plasma PAR light that replaces a 400w or 575w HMI in most situations. Better color, 20,000 bulb life, zero flicker. And it is far less expensive. If all you wish to use it for is a wall wash, bounce or with a Chimera, then you can look into the flood Bee model, which is a bit less expensive.
 
These Hive lights seem really fantastic! However if I wanted to match a 1.2k HMI I'd have to buy 2 or 3 of these and at that point I could just buy an HMI. There's obviously other benefits to these besides output, but if I'm looking just for output/price ratio, an HMI still may be only marginally more expensive.
 
tommygdawg said:
These Hive lights seem really fantastic! However if I wanted to match a 1.2k HMI I'd have to buy 2 or 3 of these and at that point I could just buy an HMI. There's obviously other benefits to these besides output, but if I'm looking just for output/price ratio, an HMI still may be only marginally more expensive.
Click to expand...

I would pay attention to HIVE, I Heard they have a super huge announcement this NAB.. Might change your mind..Till then the Wasp is a terrific light, I bought 2 with separate AC/DC power supplies to run batteries from different spots
 
Matthew Quinn said:
I would pay attention to HIVE, I Heard they have a super huge announcement this NAB.. Might change your mind..Till then the Wasp is a terrific light, I bought 2 with separate AC/DC power supplies to run batteries from different spots
Click to expand...

That's awesome! How do they fare with battery life?
 
You can play with Hive's at B&H. They are OK. The form factor is a bit weird and you still need ballast (quote heavy) and have to wait for warm up or color change. I lied the light but my socks stayed on my feet.
Side note, you are most likely gonna use 575 more often then 1.2...
 
JPNola said:
Check out this thread from the RED users. They are saying the Came TV HMI isn't bad for the price:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?99829-CAME-HMI-Lighting-review

They liked it enough to attempt to organize a group buy. $975 for a 575w HMI fresnel is a price point that might be worth taking a shot and your situation is either cheap or none at all.
Click to expand...

In the 4-page long thread you only have 2 people who actually worked with those lights. One of them making a bit strange remarks like:
"the Chinese model does do the job for what it is, but if it breaks it breaks." -- what???? You spent over $1000 on a piece of gear and you are so nonchalant if it breaks? It WILL break as all set gear breaks at some point, the deal is so it can be easily fixed to serve for years to come.
"The Chinese model are not hot restrike, they need about 15 minutes to cool off." -- BIG deal on all of my productions.
"Also it's stil unclear whether or not the lens on the Chinese lens has any UV filtration" -- you can't be certain of something this basic??? What other basis you can't be certain of?

AGAIN, buy used quality brand or Hive if you are into new technology.
 
Something else to think about concerning these cheap HMI's like the Came stuff... I did some digging when I was interested in possibly getting one of the ARRI M18 clones from China. What I found is that most of these lights from different sellers are made in the same factory, do not ship with Edison or Bates connectors, and are not approved for use in the USA. With the high rate of ballast issues and failures, you must send the defective unit back to China. And if they find a different connector, such as the needed Edison connector for use in the USA installed, any warranty will be null and void.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
In the 4-page long thread you only have 2 people who actually worked with those lights. One of them making a bit strange remarks like:
"the Chinese model does do the job for what it is, but if it breaks it breaks." -- what???? You spent over $1000 on a piece of gear and you are so nonchalant if it breaks? It WILL break as all set gear breaks at some point, the deal is so it can be easily fixed to serve for years to come.
"The Chinese model are not hot restrike, they need about 15 minutes to cool off." -- BIG deal on all of my productions.
"Also it's stil unclear whether or not the lens on the Chinese lens has any UV filtration" -- you can't be certain of something this basic??? What other basis you can't be certain of?

AGAIN, buy used quality brand or Hive if you are into new technology.
Click to expand...

Just sharing some info and pointing out an option. Yes, there are downsides and risk. But that is also the case with purchasing used Jokers off ebay. ( seller does not pack it properly and it arrives damaged, item is not as seller claimed, seller never ships product, etc. ) Unlikely to find a used Joker 400w for anything close to $1000. I've never seen one for that low of a price on Ebay. A used Arri 200w pocket par is currently priced at $3500 on Ebay. AGAIN, if the choice is a $1 Chinese HMI or NO HMI at all because your budget is only $1K, it is an option. Buyer beware and do your research. Obviously people are willing to take chances on the Chinese stuff otherwise Socaland wouldn't have sold so many LED panels. Another example is the knockoffs of ARRI fresnels, reviewed here:

http://filmgeartorture.wordpress.com/2011/12/27/chinese-arri-lighting-knockoff-review/

The OP specified "cheap HMI". The Hive may be a great light unit but $3500 isn't exactly cheap for a starter HMI. Used Jokers aren't inexpensive either since they have such high resale value as a result of their excellent reputation and desirability. An option I did not mention is the Bron / Kobold HMI's. Less expensive than Jokers but they come with drawbacks and are not as robust.

I concur- purchase the top brands if you can swing the price and there are some great bargains on top name gear to be had on ebay. Hive lights are getting rave reviews and are the newest technology, even if the clunky boxed housings look at bit Mole-Richardson circa 1940. ( Work on that Hive. ) :happy:

"It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money -- that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot -- it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.

There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.”

 - attributed to economist John Ruskin, source in debate.
 
If you do not have an immediate need, then it's a matter of keeping a watchful eye out, and timing.

All my HMI's are used.

$1200 for a Joker 1.2K

$1700 for a Joker 200w

$650 for a pair of Kobold 200w

$1000 for a Kobold 400w

$500 for a pair of RDS 575w
 
JPNola said:
Just sharing some info and pointing out an option. Yes, there are downsides and risk. But that is also the case with purchasing used Jokers off ebay. ( seller does not pack it properly and it arrives damaged, item is not as seller claimed, seller never ships product, etc. ) Unlikely to find a used Joker 400w for anything close to $1000. I've never seen one for that low of a price on Ebay. A used Arri 200w pocket par is currently priced at $3500 on Ebay. AGAIN, if the choice is a $1 Chinese HMI or NO HMI at all because your budget is only $1K, it is an option. Buyer beware and do your research. Obviously people are willing to take chances on the Chinese stuff otherwise Socaland wouldn't have sold so many LED panels. Another example is the knockoffs of ARRI fresnels, reviewed here:

http://filmgeartorture.wordpress.com/2011/12/27/chinese-arri-lighting-knockoff-review/

The OP specified "cheap HMI". The Hive may be a great light unit but $3500 isn't exactly cheap for a starter HMI. Used Jokers aren't inexpensive either since they have such high resale value as a result of their excellent reputation and desirability. An option I did not mention is the Bron / Kobold HMI's. Less expensive than Jokers but they come with drawbacks and are not as robust.

I concur- purchase the top brands if you can swing the price and there are some great bargains on top name gear to be had on ebay. Hive lights are getting rave reviews and are the newest technology, even if the clunky boxed housings look at bit Mole-Richardson circa 1940. ( Work on that Hive. ) :happy:

"It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money -- that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot -- it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.

There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.”

 - attributed to economist John Ruskin, source in debate.
Click to expand...

JP has kind of convinced me, of course a name-brand HMI would be much preferred, but even the used Arri (unless you're willing to wait) is going to be significantly more expensive. I have a couple of specific applications in the next couple of months that I'd like a 1.2k HMI for and I don't know that I'll get a good used deal in that time. Also given that I don't necessarily need them to hold up for years, it may not be a terrible choice.

Regarding the Hives, they do look great, but again...it's just that price tag. Hmmm, I'll keep my eyes out for a little bit.
 
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