Charging for easy tasks?

F

firehawk

Veteran
Hi all. We all have to do easy but time consuming tasks as part of jobs but how do you charge for it?
For instance, client wants you to make after effects animated photo montage but before you can do the real "meat" of the project you have to physically scan in several hundred photos.
That takes a lot of time.
I try to charge by the hour rate or day rate but trivial scanning of photos over xx number of hours doesn't seem equivalent of doing animation over xx number hours.
However, time is time and whatever time spent scanning or whatever is time you can't spend on another job.
 
You charge for your time, period. Any time spent doing easy tasks is time that you can't be getting paid doing harder tasks, so the cost for your time is the same.

If you really think you need to charge less lest you upset your clients, bring in an assistant with lower skills and a lower rate to do the easy stuff for you.
 
IMO, it depends on the client and situation.

If this person/organization is paying you $30K-$40K (whatever) in work annually, and they ask for something - "By the way, we would like to add 100 photos to the video." - DURING a project you're working on, you simply eat it up. No question about it.

If you say, "Oh, that's going to cost extra.", you have a very strong possibility of ruining a relationship. I promise you I have seen this happen so many times.

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Now, if it's someone else (take them or leave them), or you're already making a lot of money in life (probably wouldn't be doing this anymore) and simply don't care then it doesn't matter what you ask/say. Charge whatever you think you're worth.

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As far as the 'photo montage'...that would be a project. And it's never an "easy task".

Not only is the scanning tedious, but you'll likely have to crop (head room, lead room, etc) dozens of photos so the overall product has some consistency. And then you'll most likely have to key frame a lot in your edit to make movement interesting unless you're using a template that just loops itself.

I also would have people scan the photos themselves (take them to Staples or somewhere) because then I'm only working with what is provided and avoiding any quality concerns.

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Easy tasks are removing a clip from an edit, or adding a photo...they are easy, haha.
 
Thanks everyone.
I agree with you. Charging for various things can be a little slippery for me. I try to bill $150/hr for post, or $800/day. But then there are meeting hours, render hours, research, story boarding, location scouting, scanning photos and all the rest. I have been charging less for pre-production and those types of things

If I spent all day doing post for $800 vs all day scanning photos just doesn't seem scanning photos is equal but it still took all day of my time I couldn't be out shooting another job.

In the past I normally just have clients scan themselves and give me the digital files. But this is a good long term client and a lot more photos than usual. I think I will suggest they scan them themselves because it will "be cheaper than me doing it", plus no liability on my part of lost or damaged photos ..but if they still want me to do it I will still have to determine a cost
 
unclebob6958 said:
This is what interns are for…..
Click to expand...
NY labor law says that interns (unpaid) can not take the place of an employee, they are also supposed to be supervised and educated, not just slave labor for free! Yes we get that crap at least once a week with people looking for interns to staff some kind of crap event. They usually also want them to bring their own equipment and have their own post facilities (or use the college's stuff).

Sorry for the off topic rant.
 
Charge as a product not by time. Hire low cost employee, factor in your time managing and reviewing them as well as admin work for them etc, and ensure you still turn a profit on all of that. If your sub contractor takes 3 days at $20 hour ($480) perhaps charge $1000 for the scan service, up to X photos.
 
Also, another peaceable way to handle things is simple transparency.

Share that it might not make sense for you to scan the photos at your rate as it would end up costing X which seems inequitable, and refer them to some scanning service elsewhere and offer to take the scanned photos for the slideshow, or suggest an intern or what not. This has two effects: you quote them your price, 100% willing to do it as an option, but show you are on their team by watching out for them to get a good deal and helping them solve the problem.

I’ve used this with a number of things if I don’t want to own some aspect of a project (or would be willing for a price, but don’t want to look like I’m giving an unreasonable quote). I’ve also used it to deal with negotiating travel - I learned long ago to sometimes quote travel hours for travel by air not just as a day but per hour (depending on circumstance - not always). This helped alleviate clients who wanted to book crap non-direct flights to save a buck. “Hey can we fly you to LA from Portland through Utah / Phoenix / Colorado? It’s $150 cheaper”. “Yes, but I’m looking at the flight and it appears it would take a total of 6 hours longer round trip, and with my hourly travel rate it appears it would be a better value to just go direct from Portland”. Problem solved and it went over a lot better for me personally than “no, I only got direct”.
 
One solution could be (not in this case) start to cooperate with someone from different part of the world who is not paid 800/day. Like me :) , wish I could have 800/day, but 300/day is max where I come from.
 
groveChuck said:
At this rate, is this going to be your new sig? :grin:
Click to expand...

10 years next month...it's time for my first signature.

I shared my advice about threading lightly and not losing an important client and right away:

"I'm offended."

"I'm offended."

"I'm offended."

(Out of all of the things I have argued about over 10 years...this, really? ha)

Every day people are downvoted for sharing their opinions and you never see them again...this is for you.
 
Thanks again, everyone.
The client has interns working for them so that should be a good task for them and remove liability from me in case of damage or lost. I’ll be willing to do it, but maybe instead of what I said earlier, “cheaper than me doing it” phrase it more like filmguy123 said “might not make sense for me doing it at my rates.” They will understand that and then if they STILL want me to do it I will.
Unclebob6958, NorBro and Nothing hit on that idea earlier also about having an assistant, intern or client do it.

And yes I agree with pricing the job as a project and not a list of hours. The way I try to price projects is to determine the time and resources needed. So it is based off hours, but not seen that way to the client. The difficulty I run into is pricing for such things as we are discussing in this thread.

And KrocanX, I didn’t mean to sound like I always get $800/day. My sheet rates are 150/hr or 800/day which is the goal I try to do. But I often adjust that depending on the situation. I have been calculating pre-production services at $25/hr.
And even on post sometimes (especially on really long projects) I’ll just decide what am I willing to spend that much time for and it is less than my full rates.
I’m trying to make a living and also not contribute to our field going down the toilet as it has in recent years but I don’t always stick to my pricing sheet rates.
Thanks again everyone
 
I (we) certainly understand your thought-process.

For me, charging is actually the most difficult part of the business.

I can run around like a chicken-without-a-head and operate multiple cameras, monitor audio, set up lights, send 100 e-mails, make 100 edits, render 100 times, etc. but when it comes to working out a fair rate (especially with a great client), I absolutely dread it.

I think every single person who has chosen this profession has [at one point or another in their career] second-guessed their rates.

IMO, when some people who work in this field offer advice to charge like we are lawyers, they don't understand that everyone has different circumstances and that many of us are extremely disposable (more than ever).

Maybe some will have the luxury of charging for every single second of their time forever, but many people do not. So when we have a really good client or two who may be paying us a comparable starting salary for 50 days of work vs. what some people may make for 250+ days of work, many of us really, really want to keep them happy.

But again, if it's a once-in-a-blue-moon client then everything I shared above simply does not apply. In that case, I charge exactly what I feel is personally necessary.
 
NorBro said:
10 years next month...it's time for my first signature.

I shared my advice about threading lightly and not losing an important client and right away:

"I'm offended."

"I'm offended."

"I'm offended."

(Out of all of the things I have argued about over 10 years...this, really? ha)

Every day people are downvoted for sharing their opinions and you never see them again...this is for you.
Click to expand...

Wait we’re supposed to pay attention to the upvotes/downvotes? I’ve been doing it wrong I guess. Have offered plenty of unpopular opinions and will likely continue to do so. I made a personal vow last year not to “get into it” with people on here (or anywhere else—-if I feel a long back and forth coming on I will simply not make the controversial post in the first place or just abandon ship on the fight) because arguing online is possibly the stupidest waste of time in existence.
 
That’s cause the songs are me lettin’ it fly whilst elsewhere in life I attempt to hold back 90% of what I’m really thinking and feeling to avoid being murdered by the general population.
 
Josh Bass said:
That’s cause the songs are me lettin’ it fly whilst elsewhere in life I attempt to hold back 90% of what I’m really thinking and feeling to avoid being murdered by the general population.
Click to expand...

That is exactly the problem.
 
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