Charging for data upload?

M

mcbob

Veteran
Once upon a time, I used to ship tapes to clients. Later, hard drives, flash drives, or SD cards (still partially in those days).

Over the last couple years, a small chunk of the world encompassing many of the production centers has come to assume that everyone has amazingly fast broadband internet. They assume that uploading that 120ishGB of data over a night or two won't be an issue, "it's free," and they have this nifty browser-based system that makes it "easy" when it doesn't fail 2/3 of the time. Of course, I'm in that far more vast part of the world with less than stellar upload speeds... that portion of developed society where you can still see an unintentional tree, and for which uploading a ~1GB YouTube video is still an overnight affair that prevents the kids from streaming the Mandalorian for the twelfth time. First world problems, yes, but problems the aspiring urban elite don't seem to comprehend.

I've been toying at how to play this, trying at least 2/3 of these...
- I send a drive anyway and eat the costs. Not ideal in the least, and some clients still don't want a physical delivery.
- I beg a friend with an office of whatever kind to let me park a laptop in an office, and check on it periodically to see just which files the client's convoluted system randomly rejects from the upload so I can have the unmitigated joy of uploading it again and again. Considering I live at least 18 minutes from a stoplight, this is also not ideal and a huge PITA. This takes time, gas, mileage, and thus money.
- I rent a small office I can access at all hours. Buy a decent laptop I can remote connect with from home to monitor. More Money.

The short of it is that their "free" upload sure isn't cheap to me. I'd rather just ship a damned drive and be done with it, but hey... happy clients, happy bank account.

How receptive have others been at charging a modest "media handling" fee to cover the time and bother of checking uploads and tying up bandwidth? Am I simply a tightwad destined towards ever more professional obscurity if I don't move into a cable TV service area? Why does anyone even need dental practice promo videos first thing in the morning?

Curious to hear your thoughts
 
If ultimately doable, I would ship a drive and be done with it. Everything else sounds like a nightmare in your situation.

I don't see a "media handling" fee being kindly accepted in these modern times once it's explained what it actually is, but maybe you can write it off as another expense that sounds better and you can be paid for your additional time. For years, I have personally recommended people increase their filming rate in this changing world rather than sounding petty or weird about certain things.

Everyone wants to make money and sometimes too much is expected of us, so increase your entire worth (essentially the filming rate & equipment if applicable).
 
I would just tell them that it's not practical to upload that amount of data and that overnighting a drive is the more feasible option. A while back, and for a year or two, one of my network clients was all into FTP'ing video back to them. They had their own site and everything. Today, I honestly cannot tell you the last time I had a request for or heard anything about anyone else FTP'ing video in from the field from a general shoot. I think they still do it back and forth from the remote production trucks to the studio, but that's a little different and they have high-speed lines dropped in for that.
 
I'm lucky/smart/stupid for living in an expensive urban area that already has this sort of infrastructure... Nonetheless, my definition of "digital delivery" has always been when the file is available for client to download, at the very least, via my Google Drive, Dropbox, etc. Uploading to their proprietary system (or account on some other cloud storage platform) is strictly a courtesy im happy to perform, but im not in any way liable for when it comes to deadlines. It's just not a part of the equation/workflow that I have any control over, so I refuse to guarantee it.

As for your upload speeds, well, you either just have to bake in the extra time it takes or the $ it costs to upload from a FedEx/Kinko's, Office Depot, or whatever... Maybe invest in a separate internet line so your household is unaffected (write-off!)? You're still way ahead on overhead costs vs. those of us who live in the cities and suburbs!

I would not recommend nickel and dimeing them with handling fees. Eat the cost or build it into your price (easier said than done, but it's just basic project management).
 
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McBob, being that you are in Century Link/Comcast territory, it's hard to say when 5G will solve your problem. Century is focused on fiber expansion and so if you live out of town, forget it. Comcast is a big believer in wireless and 5G and has arrangements with Verizon to piggyback onto their system. So hopefully, Verizon will have some build-out plans in your area in the next 2-3 years, although looking at Verizon reviews for Charlottesville, it doesn't look promising.
 
Enlightening post, as living in an urban core, I've never even had this cross my mind as a modern concern. I feel your dilemma.

As others have said, charging a labelled fee for it will not go over well. There are a ton of editors in the urban area and if I got billed for that, you'd be the one guy and it would be obnoxious "in 2020" (just telling you the mindset it will be met with). Don't be the one guy charging stupid petty fees. (I know they aren't stupid or petty to you, but most of your clients and most jobs probably come from an urban core where it would be seen as such).

As others have said, just raise your rate to compensate for the expense. In fact, is it possible you're already charging less than the urban guys who probably have a higher cost of living outside of internet? Or maybe your standard of living is better than their smaller home in the city area and they are effectively taking a lower rate than you as is? Hard to say without knowing actual rates (you don't need to share), but it seems you could increase your rates slightly, make this part of your business overhead, and be done with the stress.

My personal preference would be to call the companies and see what data upgrades are available, if any. Alternatively, a dedicated second line as someone mentioned. I'd probably go one of those routes if there was something workable because then my personal life benefits 24/7 with better internet. If I'm going to increase my overhead I'd rather do it with something I win on everyday, rather than a mailed HDD. However, if no good internet upgrades exist, HDD is probably the way to go. At ~$70 for the cost of a drive + shipping (or less?) you could just incrementally increase your hourly edit bill (if you are billing hourly), or your project rate if not, and it would disappear.

Yes, it is ironic that you could charge the same by increasing your rate VS a tacked on fee, but the rate raise will almost certainly be received better.
 
Paul F said:
McBob, being that you are in Century Link/Comcast territory....
Click to expand...

Too true.

I've had CenturyLink techs tell me flat out that the switches on my area's trunk are horribly old and curmodgeony, and might themselves be causing a bunch of my upload problems... but they won't upgrade the things. Comcast has cable service 1/4 mile away (wealthy guy that farms tax breaks), but so far isn't inclined to run it here for any reasonable cost.
 
Mcbob, first - congratulations on being in an area that still has trees and I'm jealous of the 18 minutes from a stop-light.
I feel your pain. Agree with others though - no one likes "add- on's" - would simply raise your rates for those clients who prefer this kind of service... but let them know in advance that if they shipped you an external hard drive - they'd likely get large files just as quick - since you can't upload them from your office - and won't be sitting in front of the computer while it transfers.
I usually find the clients who want me to upload 60+ gb's of data - are most likely the one's who are always looking for the best rates as opposed to the best service/footage.
 
mcbob said:
Once upon a time, I used to ship tapes to clients. Later, hard drives, flash drives, or SD cards (still partially in those days).

Over the last couple years, a small chunk of the world encompassing many of the production centers has come to assume that everyone has amazingly fast broadband internet. They assume that uploading that 120ishGB of data over a night or two won't be an issue, "it's free," and they have this nifty browser-based system that makes it "easy" when it doesn't fail 2/3 of the time. Of course, I'm in that far more vast part of the world with less than stellar upload speeds... that portion of developed society where you can still see an unintentional tree, and for which uploading a ~1GB YouTube video is still an overnight affair that prevents the kids from streaming the Mandalorian for the twelfth time. First world problems, yes, but problems the aspiring urban elite don't seem to comprehend.

I've been toying at how to play this, trying at least 2/3 of these...
- I send a drive anyway and eat the costs. Not ideal in the least, and some clients still don't want a physical delivery.
- I beg a friend with an office of whatever kind to let me park a laptop in an office, and check on it periodically to see just which files the client's convoluted system randomly rejects from the upload so I can have the unmitigated joy of uploading it again and again. Considering I live at least 18 minutes from a stoplight, this is also not ideal and a huge PITA. This takes time, gas, mileage, and thus money.
- I rent a small office I can access at all hours. Buy a decent laptop I can remote connect with from home to monitor. More Money.

The short of it is that their "free" upload sure isn't cheap to me. I'd rather just ship a damned drive and be done with it, but hey... happy clients, happy bank account.

How receptive have others been at charging a modest "media handling" fee to cover the time and bother of checking uploads and tying up bandwidth? Am I simply a tightwad destined towards ever more professional obscurity if I don't move into a cable TV service area? Why does anyone even need dental practice promo videos first thing in the morning?

Curious to hear your thoughts
Click to expand...

Is this footage you've shot and are delivering to them? Were they on the shoot?

As often as possible when shooting 4k/8 bit on my c200 (very small files), instead of transferring data, I just let the client keep the SD cards and add them to the invoice - transfer complete. I use these cards and usually have around 30x SD cards that eventually never return. If media is cheap enough on your camera can you do the same? Even sending SD cards in the mail could work, while retaining your own backup(s) vs. doing the HDD thing. For me uploading files is a huge pain/waste of time. Sometimes you have multiple uploads for a separate project happening and these other clients (and your kids) shouldn't suffer because of someone else's unrealistic expectations.
 
Dual-card recording would be best for that as it's not always wise to trust anyone but yourself with the only copies of the footage. But that kind of circles back to what you/we posted the other month pertaining to a world in which large amounts of data is eventually transferred on set wirelessly during production.
 
mcbob said:
I've had CenturyLink techs tell me flat out that the switches on my area's trunk are horribly old and curmodgeony, and might themselves be causing a bunch of my upload problems... but they won't upgrade the things.
Click to expand...

Yes, the equipment is from the very early days of DSL - probably 20 years old, when upload capability was a trickle and not considered important.

mcbob said:
Comcast has cable service 1/4 mile away (wealthy guy that farms tax breaks), but so far isn't inclined to run it here for any reasonable cost.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there's not much in it for them. There's not enough revenue to justify it. That's the advantage to 5G - run a cable to an area, mount an antenna, and serve a pile of people with it. Easy installation, low cost maintenance.
 
NorBro said:
Dual-card recording would be best for that as it's not always wise to trust anyone but yourself with the only copies of the footage. But that kind of circles back to what you/we posted the other month pertaining to a world in which large amounts of data is eventually transferred on set wirelessly during production.
Click to expand...

Maybe starlink will help mcbob soon?
 
Can't help with poor bandwidth but anytime I need to transfer really large video files, MASV.io has been really good, I'v even transferred 100+GB files to China and it worked without a hitch.
So as far as reliability, Google Drive and DropBox weren't really designed for transferring video files while MASV.io was specifically engineered to do just that. The charges can be ala carte or
subscription. I don't use them often but the few times I have, they've been rock solid.

For end clients who just want an H264 file, Vimeo Pro has also been great. I think they now support Prores too so I suppose you could even upload edited masters to it. What I like is that the
clients can add notes to specific spots in the video, they can view and download the footage in different raster sizes and resolutions or they can dowload the original file you uploaded. But you still have the
issue of low bandwidth and with low bandwidth come time out errors. No way around it.

In your case, I would just encourage clients to accept drives. You can probably find the 1TBs on closeout pretty cheap, like $40.00 or $50.00? You can tell them you've tried uploading from
your home base and the reliability is terrible. I don't know what else you can do unless your camera masters are on affordable SD cards as was suggested?
 
McBob - check Highspeedlink.net. There's a website that says they provide fixed wireless for $50/month in the Charlottesville area. Fixed wireless is made specifically for cases like yours.
 
puredrifting said:
Can't help with poor bandwidth but anytime I need to transfer really large video files, MASV.io has been really good, I'v even transferred 100+GB files to China and it worked without a hitch.
So as far as reliability, Google Drive and DropBox weren't really designed for transferring video files while MASV.io was specifically engineered to do just that. The charges can be ala carte or
subscription. I don't use them often but the few times I have, they've been rock solid.
Click to expand...

I actually haven't had issues with Google Drive. Recently uploaded a 60 gigabyte file in about three hours without error. It's the best deal price / speed wise. Dropbox has always been a nightmare for large files. Whenever I get sent large Dropbox files, they always lose connection midway through and have to restart. Last couple times I gave up and told them to send another way. Most of my clients use Aspera, which uses its own separate software, is fast and reliable and allows you to resume a download if the connection is lost.
 
Batutta said:
I actually haven't had issues with Google Drive. Recently uploaded a 60 gigabyte file in about three hours without error. It's the best deal price / speed wise. Dropbox has always been a nightmare for large files. Whenever I get sent large Dropbox files, they always lose connection midway through and have to restart. Last couple times I gave up and told them to send another way. Most of my clients use Aspera, which uses its own separate software, is fast and reliable and allows you to resume a download if the connection is lost.
Click to expand...

I've never tried sending files with Google Drive but I have tried downloading some huge ones from an editor and ran into time out issues.
I have FIOs fiber which should be pretty fast but unfortunately it's not. I pay for 150/150Mbps and I just checked speedtest.net and I am getting 32/90Mbps
so uploading huge files is okay but not great.

Never tried Aspera but MASV.io seems to be a good deal and not terribly expensive.
 
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