CGI Animation Questions - Game Trailer

[prodigal]

Here is a link to the upcoming Batman game Arkham City:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muCtJsy-d9w

So I had a few questions about this, as I'm thinking about starting a production company one day focused on CGI Animation for game trailers, spots, etc, and I was just trying to see how feasible it could be.

• Apart from the voice actors, how many people could've been involved in making this trailer?
• What kind of software could they have utilized?
• What type of artists would be involved in the making of a trailer like this. I.e. what positions each would have, etc.

Thanks guys to anyone with some experience in this!

 

[handsome pete]

There are actually many different answers to your questions. But I'll try to shed a light on it a little bit to give you a general idea of things.

How many people worked on that? Could be hundreds or could be a smaller group (like maybe 15-20). The example you linked to is some pretty high end stuff. I didn't look into which company produced it, but off the top of my head I can think of writer(s), director, producer, production manager, technical manager, storyboard artist, modelers, animators, character riggers, lighting designer, shading artists, programmers, DP, grip, PA, editor, VFX manager, simulations manager, motion capture tech, sound design, etc. This list could honestly go on and on and on. It really comes down to how this production was planned. How much pre-visualization was done? Did they do any mo-cap? These questions and more will help give you an idea of the scope of the project.

What kind of software could they have utilized? 3D Modeling, Animation, Simulation, Tracking, Rendering, Compositing, etc. I doubt one software package was responsible for everything you saw there.

What type of artists would be involved in the making of a trailer like this. I.e. what positions each would have, etc. This is somewhat similar to your fist question. You would have some pre-vis artists, 2D sketch artists, etc. For the 3D stuff, you'd have modelers, animators, character riggers, environment artists, people to work on cloth simulations, particle systems, and other dynamics, others to work on shaders, texture mapping, etc. And that just scratches the surface. I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot of other positions needed for this type of work.

This type of work is not all that different than your regular live action production. A lot of the positions cross over.

Rocksteady Studios is the maker of that game, but I'm not sure if they produced that trailer in house or farmed it out to some other production company.

I would research some various different post houses around to get a better idea of the company size and types of projects they've worked on. I'm drawing a blank on some good ones to steer you to. Look into some magazines like Post or StudioDaily, which always have some good insight.

 

[prodigal]

Thank you very much for that reply! It was very helpful to me. Going to look into these things more. Thanks again.

 

[medeamajic]

How many people were involved in this trailer? Probably not many. How many programs were used? Probalby not many.

Allow me to explain.

Programs like True Space, 3DS MAX, LightWave and Even Maya can be used for game creation. The modeling, texturing and rigging has already been done to create the actual game already. What I seen was all 3D animation (I could be wrong) so I don't knw why all these positions below would need to be mentioned.

director, producer, production manager, technical manager, storyboard artist, modelers, animators, character riggers, lighting designer, shading artists, programmers, DP, grip, PA, editor, VFX manager, simulations manager, motion capture tech, sound design, etc. This list could honestly go on and on and on.

DP/Director of Photography? Grip? PA? The list could go on and on?

What I saw was all 3D animation but I could be wrong. It is hard to tell with internet video. If the designer of the game uses 3D Studio Max and you have a 3D artist that uses 3D Studio Max he could put the thing together real quick provided the game makers sent him the 3D models fully textured and fully rigged. My guess is that this was done in house by the same folks who created the game. How many people were involved in the creation of the game? I don't know.

 

[handsome pete]

How many people were involved in this trailer? Probably not many. How many programs were used? Probalby not many.

Allow me to explain.

Programs like True Space, 3DS MAX, LightWave and Even Maya can be used for game creation. The modeling, texturing and rigging has already been done to create the actual game already. What I seen was all 3D animation (I could be wrong) so I don't knw why all these positions below would need to be mentioned.

director, producer, production manager, technical manager, storyboard artist, modelers, animators, character riggers, lighting designer, shading artists, programmers, DP, grip, PA, editor, VFX manager, simulations manager, motion capture tech, sound design, etc. This list could honestly go on and on and on.

DP/Director of Photography? Grip? PA? The list could go on and on?

What I saw was all 3D animation but I could be wrong. It is hard to tell with internet video. If the designer of the game uses 3D Studio Max and you have a 3D artist that uses 3D Studio Max he could put the thing together real quick provided the game makers sent him the 3D models fully textured and fully rigged. My guess is that this was done in house by the same folks who created the game. How many people were involved in the creation of the game? I don't know.

I think you severely underestimate the work involved in a project like the one posted.

Regarding all of the position I mentioned, of course not all of them may have been necessary. I even stated that it could have been a small group. It all depends on how this project was approached, what methods they used, and if it was done in house. I also took the approach of this being created from the ground up, without any help that may have come from the game design departments themselves. The OP stated that he was hoping to start a production company of his own one day so I looked at it as an independent project. That being the case, a lot of those positions I mentioned would be helpful if not necessary. The final output was all CG, but the positions I listed like DP, grip, etc. could have all been used on some pre-vis, conceptualization, motion capture, etc. work.

It's true that some time could be saved and work already be done by using assets from the game design. But it's not nearly as simple as you make it out to be when you say they could just send a 3D artist some models from the game that are already textured and rigged. If you watched the video linked, you should have been able to tell that it was a top notch, high res CG video. If you've ever done any 3D work on any level, then you would certainly know that it's a lot more complex and time consuming than just taking some premade models and getting them to work for what you need them to do.

 

[medeamajic]

Actualy I do 3D animaiton and that is why I made my post. Animating pre rigged figures is not hard at all. Modeling, texturing and rigging can take some time. I don't doubt a lot of effort went into making the game but once that is done it would only take 3-4 guys (on staff) a few hours to animate what you just seen. They can then send it to a render ranch/render farm. It was rendered with high quality but that is a non issues to set up (it takes seconds). I admit you would have the voice over and syncing but still that would not be all that hard for the professionals who does it every day.

 

[handsome pete]

I don't doubt a lot of effort went into making the game but once that is done it would only take 3-4 guys (on staff) a few hours to animate what you just seen.

There is absolutely no way that it would take only 3-4 guys a few hours to animate the scenes in that trailer.

I don't mean to be insulting, but I seriously doubt your skill level or knowledge of CG work if that's advice you're trying to give. Because quite frankly, it's bad advice.

 

[medeamajic]

You're out of your mind. There is absolutely no way that it would take only 3-4 guys a few hours to animate the scenes in that trailer.

I don't mean to be insulting, but I seriously doubt your skill level or knowledge of CG work if that's advice you're trying to give. Because quite frankly, it's bad advice.

Are you confusing creating the game with creating the trailer? Also try to keep in mind you suggested the need for a DP in your original response : )

If the models are textured and pre rigged it is easy to animate them. Trust me you could animate pre rigged figures in Maya or True Space within a matter of minutes if I showed you how. I admit it would take a few weeks to get good at it. On the other hand showing you how to model, apply shaders and rig the figures would take some serious time but all this has been done already to create the game. All that needs to be done is the animation and the pros can do that easy enough. If you had to create all the models, apply the shaders and rig them it would indeed takes some serious time but like I said earlier that has already been done to create the game.

 

[johnnyevil]

I've very little knowledge of creating 3D animation, but that trailer is probably composed of game screens. In which case, it could have been made even faster, since the assets were created for the game. You only need the people to cut the trailer then.

Just saying, it's a possibility.

 

[handsome pete]

Are you confusing creating the game with creating the trailer? Also try to keep in mind you suggested the need for a DP in your original response : )

If the models are textured and pre rigged it is easy to animate them. Trust me you could animate pre rigged figures in Maya or True Space within a matter of minutes if I showed you how. I admit it would take a few weeks to get good at it. On the other hand showing you how to model, apply shaders and rig the figures would take some serious time but all this has been done already to create the game. All that needs to be done is the animation and the pros can do that easy enough. If you had to create all the models, apply the shaders and rig them it would indeed takes some serious time but like I said earlier that has already been done to create the game.

I've been working in 3D (primarily with Maya) for the past 5 years. I'm the lead designer at the agency I work at an am in charge of the team of editors and motion graphic artists I work with. I will admit that 3D doesn't make up a lot of our work, but we do 3D work. We're a small to mid size agency so I know the limitations of 3D within our organization. I also have many colleagues who work at bigger firms overseas and on the west coast and from speaking to them frequently and keeping up with the trade magazines/websites, I know what can be accomplished and the time it takes for higher end projects.

All of this aside, you've completely ignored the question posed by the original poster (something I've noticed you do in other threads as well). He asked how long and how much manpower it would take to do something like this with the intention of starting his own company in the future working on game trailers, spots, etc. Keeping that in mind, you almost have to look at this project as something started from scratch, without the advantage of having the assets readily available to you from the game design. That means doing the pre-production work, the modeling, the shading, the lighting, the animating, the fluid/dynamic simulations, the rendering, the compositing, the editing, the sound mixing, etc. You chose to ignore all of that and just claim that they could grab some game models and animate that in a few hours with a few guys working on it (which I still vehemently disagree with).

I'm not denying they could have used assets from the game, but it still would take a lot of man hours to put something together with the polish that this trailer has. Seeing as no one here works for Rocksteady Studios and we don't know how much crossover was available between the game and this trailer, you're ignoring the strong possibility that the assets used were not suitable for the quality level of this trailer. Game assets are designed efficiently (at the expense of quality) because they need to be rendered in real time by the game system. That's not to say that the game models are not high quality, but there's always a good chance that they're not up to the level that studios want to use for their pre-rendered material.

You seem to laugh at the fact that I suggested a DP as one of the positions that might have been involved. I never said that the position was absolutely necessary. But having no knowledge of what was actually involved in this particular project, I merely suggested the possibility of what kind of positions could have been involved at any level of the production, positions that the original poster might never have thought of due to having a limited knowledge of the CG industry. Most CG works goes way beyond modeling, shading, and animating. A lot of studios do intensive previsualization work, which can include 2d sketch drawings/animatics, clay figure modeling, and yes... live action visualization. My intent was to get the original poster to think beyond the scope what someone without much CG knowledge generally assumes is involved in these types of productions. That being said, most CG productions use a DP. Check out the crew list on any fully CG production if you disagree.