Cavision carbon pole?

Shawn Philip Nelson

Shawn Philip Nelson

Veteran
Cavision has a reputation for making crappy products that work poorly and fall apart easily. Every company can turn a corner, Gitzo seems to have, so you can give it a try and let us know how it goes.

I am sure you can find the Gitzo 12' somewhere. People at least have some experience with that pole and it seems mostly positive.

If you plan to work a lot as a sound guy I would skip the cheap choices and just go for the Ktek. Mostly those "bargin" poles are bought by video guys who plan to give the pole to someone else to use. Ktek is light, smooth, quiet, good knuckles, and backed by a company that will always do right by you.

Cheers
 
But I own a Cavision matte box and I like it's quality, never had any trouble with it. Have you heard of someone using their boom poles or are you inferring from someone unhappy with a matte box?
 
I had oenfor awile few yars ago , the lockers where bad , so i sold it
the bottom pf the pull was also problematic - save for k-teck or ambient , reaaly there is nothing better , dont know how are thenew psc .
 
Pulled an Al Gore and left out "audio" from "crappy audio products." Cannot comment to their video gear but have seen lots of people with that mattebox, no one was bitching.

They had an aluminum boompole that was beyond junk, in particular the knuckles were either too loose or froze up. Their zeppelin would fall apart the second it was touched. A lot of rental houses bought Cavision audio gear....once. The crap would fall apart in under a year, not making it a very good bargin.

As I said, maybe this one is better...but I wouldn't want to be the first to find out. You buy a Ktek, you buy a pole once.

Good luck
 
I got my gitzo 7560c from bill floyd at pro video and tape in tigard oregon. call him up and he will hook you up!!

provideoandtape.com

I love my 7560 12'5" it rocks for $250
 
Cavision windshield and suspension system

Cavision windshield and suspension system

I've purchased the Cavision suspension/pistol grip system:
http://www.cavision.com/audio/suspension/suspension.htm

as well as a 30cm windshield:
http://www.cavision.com/audio/windshields/SWS1030.htm

for my AT-822

both of these (with shipping) came to ~ $200 USD which is quite a lot less than a comparable Rycote system

I'm hoping the Cavision products are like 'Behringer versions' of Rycote but I won't know until they get here...

info:
I ordered the suspension/pistol grip from Adorama in NYC:
http://www.adorama.com/CISPS810M.html?sid=11744152731143418

but had to order the windshield directly from Cavision in Canada since no-one in the US carries the Cavision line
and since Cavision only ships FedEx into the US the shipping amount came to approx half the cost of the windshield
but even so it beats the cost of a Rycote system

when I called other retail outlets in the US they claimed the didn't stock Cavision due to quality issues - but I suspect there might be some Rycote snobbery involved
i.e., professional location sound people think if a product is cheap it can't possibly be any good...

I'll post a review once I get them and have had a chance to use them on a film sound project I'm working on

Cheers!
KIM
 
i had the windshield and it had allot of issiues as it collapsed , the arms where to frangle and broke , the windshield was very frangle ,
from these who bought it few years ago i dont think anyone still have working one .

since it was 4 years ago and they changed alot of the model it maybe better now but the bad memories still there .
 
Cavision update

Cavision update

OK so I just got the Cavision suspension pistol grip today and got the windshield last week. I haven't used the system in the field yet but examined it closely and tried to adjust the brackets for my mic. . I don't have a Rycote system in order to do an A/B comparison so any comparisons are purely from memory.
================================
After getting the pistol grip suspension I snapped my AT-822 into the clips and immediately noticed it was somewhat difficult.
Also, getting the mic out of the clips is also somewhat difficult but after a couple of tries you know how much force to apply to get the mic in and out of the clips.
The suspension bands seem a little stiffer than what I remember the Rycote bands feeling like and again have not done any recording with this system yet so I can't say how well the suspension system keeps handling noise and bumps from the mic. I'll post a recording session evaluation later on.
Overall the system feels cheaper than the Rycote -- but the Cavision is 1/3 the price of a Rycote system - so a difference in material quality is to be expected.
After snapping the AT822 into the clips I slid the windshield onto the slot. It fit OK and there were no sticking points or catching rough spots on the plastic runner.
The end cap screwed onto the end of the shield fairly easily and felt sturdy.
Holding the pistol grip felt fine. The grip is a little small for my hand and I can see where hours of use might be fatiguing after a while but I tend to wear gloves in order to keep the handling noise down. So the grip might not be as big an issue as I fear.
But the grip has a channel for the cable and an XLR connector (which is nice) and a mounting thread so I can mount the whole thing on a mic stand or a boom.
The overall quality is of course not close to a Rycote but I must say that at a 1/3 of the price it might very well do the trick for location recording that is non-demanding.
Again this is just a cursory evaluation and I won't really know what the weak parts of this system are until I get it into the field and in action.
That being said I should mention that I do location recording for sound design and that I am not a sound recordist for film which is much rougher on equipment than what I do.
Summary: While obviously lesser quality than a Rycote system I spent $200 USD for a pistol-grip/suspension system + windshield rather than $600+.
I'll post another report once I get some experience in the field with it.

*** also, does anyone happen to know where I might get a sewing pattern for a Windjammer? Has anyone taken a Rycote Softie and created a pattern from it?
 
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I'm thinking that Gitzo is going to release a replacement model to the 7680c... Gitzo has a new collar design used on their latest tripods that looks impressive... it's likely that they'll have a new pole coming out that includes that type of construction.

I've been extremely pleased with my Gitzo pole... and I also have a K-Tek graphite pole that was $400... and while I'm a huge fan of K-Tek products, this other pole was a bargain for what you get.

I have no experience with the cavision pole... so I can't comment, but I'd wager that you will have a new Gitzo pole choice before too long... and if we're lucky it will have even better collars then the 7680c. If you look at the history of Gitzo poles... they used a sort of black and yellow fiber in the precursor to the 7680c... and that previous pole had poor collars... and it was MUCH heavier... so based on that evolution I wouldn't feel broken hearted about missing a 7680c... I'm expecting the next incarnation to be even better fit and finish at an even lower weight.
 
Oh sweet! Thanks Matt. When do you guess that'll be? NAB? Hmm...I'll be there, I wonder if Gitzo has a booth.

On another topic Matt, do you make breakaway cables? I'd love to order the MattinSTL(c) Breakaway! If you don't, what's the best one to get without going insanely pricey?
 
I'm not sure when the new Gitzo pole will come out... or if it will at all... I'm only speculating. I'd be SHOCKED if there wasn't an improved, replacement model out sooner then later though.

As far as budget poles go... I've only felt there were two poles tied for the cheapest entry level pole anyway... and that's the K-Tek 9' aluminum pole or the now discontinued Gitzo. A pole from the used marketplace is always the wildcard... but I can tell you even from the K-Tek in our pro kit (not my own pole but a top of the line K-Tek with the premium collars)... that our K-Tek is looking and feeling pretty used... the collars are getting silver and shiny and the coiled cable is protesting a fully collapsed pole.

I've always been interested in Ambient poles also... they LOOK to have nice collars, and overall fit and finish... coming in at a mid-range price. Still... I think the Gitzo was basically unchallenged at that price-point... did you know that Adorama had been selling those for $219 and B&H was $229 for a LONG time? Then suddenly B&H went to $249 and Adorama followed suit.

This is why I think you can expect another pole out from Gitzo... it just seems like nobody else covered that wide price-range, for that length, better then the 7680c.

Breakaway cables? Not yet... honestly I've been hammered with video for a construction company in town... a green builder... and the schedule is totally unpredictable... there have been 2 times now where they wanted a finished video from conception to dvd in 4 days... so I've taken a haitus from cables altogether... I'll get back to them, but cables are one of those things that takes longer then you'd expect and I'd rather take a break from them then constantly ship orders out late... maybe if people were comfortable with a 10 day turn from payment to delivery I'd still do it... but I hate taking somebody's money and then making them wait.
 
Cavision Suspension/cloning a Windjammer

Cavision Suspension/cloning a Windjammer

In order to study the difference between a Rycote suspension system/windshield and the Cavsion version I rented a Rycote system in addition to a Rycote Windjammer.

- Cavision 30cm LONG WINDSHIELD SWS1030**
http://www.cavision.com/audio/windshields/SWS1030.htm
** purchased directly from Cavision in Canada

- Cavision SPS810M Suspension System**
http://www.cavision.com/audio/suspension/suspension.htm
**purchased through Adorama in NYC:
http://www.adorama.com/CISPS810M.html?sid=11744152731143418


On initial examination of the two systems it was evident that Cavision had copied the Rycote system in basic materials (with some differences), construction and design.
There are some differences in material quality but not as great as I had expected before getting the Cavision system.

In other words, the various audio dealers who warned me that I would be buying 'crap' is unfounded.

The Cavsion is to Rycote as Behringer is to Mackie: i.e. a decent quality knock-off at a fraction of the price.

PRICES:
Rycote system + windshield (sans Windjammer) = ~$600 USD
Cavsion system + windshield (sans Windjammer) = $200 USD (which includes shipping the windshield from Canada via FedEx)

CLIPS:
The clips that came with the Cavision suspension were 19mm (the size was not specified on the dealers website)
http://www.adorama.com/CISPS810M.html?sid=11744152731143418

so I ended up breaking a clip while removing my stereo mic. So I called Cavision in Canada, and spoke to a sales rep (Jason) and promised to put a couple of (larger) 21mm clips in the mail to me -- free of charge. Very cool of them!

CUST SERV:
After ordering the windshield directly from Cavsion the sales rep called me back to suggest I go with a larger sized windshield for my mic. He had done some research into the size of the AT-822 with the XLR connector hanging off the end and established that what I had ordered wasn't going to fit.

It was nice of him to call me and ensure I had the right size rather than letting me figure it out for myself and sending it back. Since FedEx is the only way Cavsion is able to ship goods into the US it is VERY pricey and saving me from a second $35 FedEx shipping charge was very cool of them.

Rycote vs. Cavsion:
To test the two systems I wanted to use them under the sorts of conditions that I normally record in. Since I don't do much production sound my systems are not exposed to that level of abuse and wear & tear so keep that in mind when reading my A/B test results.

I took both systems to my sons baseball game and recorded some cheering crowds and sports activity.
Also, I knew there would be wind at this park and this was great for testing the windshield and windjammer.

MY RIG:
Sound Professionals SP-SPSB-5 Pre-Amp + Archos 402 based rig, an Audio Technica AT-822 stereo mic and a pair of cheap earbuds.
And of course, the Cavision and Rycote systems.

testing 1,2,3:
- recording with windshield and NO windjammer: on the Rycote the plastic basket part is over the fabric - while on the Cavision the fabric is over the plastic basket.
While recording with the Rycote windsheld (again sans Windjammer) the wind made a slight wispy whistling sound as the exterior plastic basket part caught the wind; while the Cavision windshield was quieter in the same wind environment because the fabric covering the basket part eliminated any contact of the wind with the plastic basket.

- The pistol grip part of the Rycote is made of a denser plastic material which highly dampens the transmission of handling noise (with bare hands). The Cavision is made of a more 'brittle' plastic and has more area carved out of the handle for cabling purposes therefor making the transmission greater when handling with bare hands. Solution is to wear a soft fleece padded glove while holding the grip.

- the path for the cable to exit the Cavsion windshield basket seems to rub against the end cap when twisting it on and off. On the Rycote the hole for the cable exit is straight out of the basket which prevents any contact of the cable with the end cap of the windshield. I'm using a small diameter cable from my AT-822 since I'm going from XLR to a stereo 3.5mm mini-jack -- a larger diameter cable is more problematic. In order to solve this I plan on cutting the cable rail slot to be longer so the cable can drop directly down and exit the windshield. This requires a bit of drilling and filing but will solve this problem.

- another difference on the Cavision system is the ability to adjust the brackets to the length of the microphone -- whereas on the Rycote system the brackets are screwed into the ends of a fixed length enameled metal bar. It's useful to be able to adjust the brackets to different size mics if need be.

- The suspension brackets on the Rycote system uses two bands of round elastic cord on each bracket, whereas the Cavision uses four rubber O-rings per bracket. The rubber O-rings are a little stiff so I plan to replace them with the elastic round cord I bought. The elastic on the Rycote I rented was stretched out and didn't support the weight of the AT822. In fact, the mic was hitting the bottom of the bracket and made a bumping sound. The Cavision system's four suspension bands seems a better way to ensure good bouncy suspension.

- The swivel adjustment knob on the Rycote is holds the angle of the pistol grip in place, via friction, when tightened. On the Cavision system there are two plates with teeth so when tightened the grip is securely locked into place. Nice touch.

- both systems can mount to a boom pole or mic stand via a 3/8" pole connection thread under the handle.

- both systems can accommodate an XLR connector in the handle. The Cavision handle has extra cut out areas for other cabling needs.

SUMMARY: The Cavision system is a really great value at 1/3 the price of a Rycote system and it even has some features that are better than the Rycote.
Whoever tells you this stuff is crap is dead wrong -- the one caveat being that using it in in a professional film production environment for chasing dialog or feet could reveal material weaknesses due to the intensity of the physical work.
If you collect sounds on set or do location recording i.e., less stressful work, the Cavision system should be fine.
I'm looking forward to using this system in the field and will report back any failures or damage that occurs.

sidebar: please ask your local audio dealers to carry the Cavision line?
If they give you a 'we looked at it and it is crap' tell them their being held hostage by their Rycote sales rep.
There is NO reason why a mostly plastic suspension system and a windshield should run someone $600.00+ USD!
A word of advice to Rycote: watch out! :)

=================================================================

Cloning a Rycote Windjammer:
Although Cavision also makes a windjammer I chose to make my own using the faux fur that I bought from John Hartog on this list last year.

I rented a Rycote windjammer in addition to the suspension and windshield in order to clone a pattern from it and make a windjammer for my Cavision windshield.

My wife (who happens to be a talented seamstress) helped me choose some bright yellow polyester knit for the lining of the windjammer as well as the correct zippers and velcro. The material for the lining looked very close to the Rycote but is not as smooth. Running a fingernail over the material and scratching it is a good test for potential fabric noise i.e. movement of fabric against the windshield.
I don't expect this to be a problem since the windjammer doesn't move much against the windshield -- so hopefully there won't be any fabric noise.
But I'll have to test this once my wife finishes sewing the windjammer.

To make a pattern of the windjammer we turned it inside-out and studied the seams in the fur and lining (the seams were in the same place).
We laid it out on a pattern board and made traced it. When flattened out on a table it looks like an elongated oval with two angled slits for the zippers.
The fur and lining are made from a single piece of fabric each which makes it simple to cut.
We then documented it by taking copious pictures and I am going to try and make a xerox of the inside-out windjammer on 8.5x14 paper so we can refer to its size if need be.
We bought some 7" white zippers which need to be cut down to 5" to match the Rycote model -- there are instructions on the back of the zipper package telling you how to do this.
We also bought some flexible black velcro which will be used to close the windjammer behind the pistol grip. This entails cutting back some fur on one side and attaching the 'velcro fur' there as well as a strip of velcro hooks to the other side.
It looks pretty simple - for a seamstress that is -- and shouldn't take more than an afternoon of sewing. The zippers might be tricky but since the package gives instruction on shortening the length of a zipper it should be a matter of trail and error.

I can post the windjammer pattern as a jpg in the future if anyone is interested.

The Rycote windjammer is also IMO very overpriced. If you happen to sew or know someone who does sew then check out trying to make your own. Even if it is not perfectly sewn it is still better than putting money in Rycotes pocket. They have an unfair monopoly on the industry and its about time someone like Cavision and DIYers offered some competition.
 
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Glad your happy with your purchase but I don't think you will find anyone saying Cavision is crap therefore buy Rycote. Ktek has a good zeppelin under $300 and while the long term durability of it has not been determined, Ktek's reputation for standing behind it's products is without question. You can find the Ktek zeppelin almost everywhere you can get a Rycote.

In the past, the problem with Cavision wasn't that the product didn't work, it was the long term durability. Things changes, perhaps they improved their product but I will stick with recommending Ktek zeps until I see a Cavision zeppelin that doesn't look like the Hindenburg after a year or two.

Ditto on Cavision poles.

Cheers
 
//I don't think you will find anyone saying Cavision is crap therefore buy Rycote

-- that was the case with a few audio dealers in the US...when I asked if they carried Cavision they tried to steer me towards a Rycote or Sennheiser windshield...

- regardless: I've used Rycote systems that were a few years old and were cracked, baskets are caved in with elastic suspension bands stretched out...
- law of physics: abuse anything made of plastic and it will break -- even if it has Rycote on the label...

- but like I said in my post: unless you're are in a hostile recording environment (booming dx and/or feet) I'd say your $200 Cavision system will do the trick just as well as a $600+ Rycote...
I'll post another review sometime towards the end of the year after using the system as a location recordist...I'm sure I'll have some war stories to share...
 
My point is there is not a Rycote bias or snobbery in the field; we use what works. Rycote/Sennhieser dominate the market because no one else (except Lightwave, who Rycote bought out, and now Ktek) makes a better/cheaper mousetrap. Any bias you think you see from dealers is most likely coming from what their customers tell them.

Shawn wanted feedback about Cavision audio products (or more specifically their new pole) and I am relying to him what numerous audio professionals, rental houses, and retailers have reported back on them (brittle, breaks easily, parts don't fit together well, etc). The same group of people who praised Lightwave zeppelins and are giving similarly positive reports on the Ktek.

Do with that info what you like.

Good luck

(for the record I still love my Lightwave; way better then Rycote)
 
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