Cartoni Focus Head Review

So What Legs

So What Legs

All this is great, but lets come to a concenses, however u spell that.

Best legs for

Run and Gun: Setup/Equipment/Where to buy/Price*

Film Maker on the Move: *

In the Studio: *

I Own a Hummer:*

And last but not least, the one im interested in, All round performer, amazing performance with mobility and style. Get the high shots high and the low shots low without sacraficing performance.

Sell me a tripod system guys, I want the Cartoni head, but what will it go with,

Cheers
 
unhappy with my focus head

unhappy with my focus head

i know that i am going to get ridiculed for this but i have a problem with my cartoni focus head. here is what it is. the tilt lock down lever on this head does not seem to have enough or a varying level of friction to hold the tilt in place. it needs to be locked down really tight or else it will not have enough friction to hold the camera in the position you want it, especially when you're tilted up or down and it has to work against the leveler spring to hold the position in place. so, the problem that i have with this is really what happens when you unlock it. you have to put so much pressure on it to unlock it that it shakes the whole camera no matter what you do to try and keep it steady. i can even hear it coming loose through my shotgun mike.

i am wondering if i am the only one that has this problem because i have heard no mention of it and people can only say very positive things about this head. let me know what is going on. do i need to lube it up or something? or maybe this is not a problem for other people because they use it ony for studio production and are not actually rolling when they unlock the lever. maybe mine is faulty.

i havn't encountered this problem with any other (cheaper) tripods that i have used or in any of the tripods that we use at my work (news videography shop).

other thatn that it is an awesome head with really nice movement, just really horrible from lock down to unlock. please help.
 
Personally I can't share the enthusiasm for the Focus. I took delivery of one and sent it back due to the following characteristics that make the tripod head totally unusable for any series applications that require professional movies; there are a bunch of other gremlins with this tripod too. I've written up my own report and emailed it to Mrs Cartoni in Italy as I understand the like feedback. The owner is a bit of a perfectionist at Cartoni, so I'm hoping my comments are taken on board and they fix these issues in future.

I personally did not like the following:

I won't go into every test I do on tripods as part of my bench test, but I'll point out a few of the bad points about the Cartoni here. The first is the one that renders this tripod totally unusable for me.

I carried out my standard panning shot test. For this test I simply wind up the pan drag control about 70% of the way toward its strongest setting to aid in achieving a smooth pan with no jerky movements. I then zoom the camera right into a subject that has defined vertical lines in the scene, for this I used a high brick wall or building. Once zoomed right in with the correct exposure and focus I carry out a gentle pan to the right, then I aim to stop the pan with the horizontal edge of the building lined up with the left hand edge of the picture safety zone line on the flip-out LCD screen of the camera. The Focus head suffers from what I call serious ‘drift back’, meaning that when I get to the end of a pan and gently stop, as the head settles in the fluid, it drifts back a few millimeters. This does not sound like much, but when zoomed in this equates a very noticable movement at the edge of the frame; this looks ameturish. Most people looking at the center of the frame would not notice, but looking at the edge; forget it. This 'drift back' is glaringly obvious to professionals with a critical eye. I even slacked off the drag control so there was virtually no drag whatsoever, but still this ‘drift back’ problem was there. The Focus head is not the only head out there with this flaw, the Manfrotto 503 and 519 heads suffer from it too, only a lot worse. The Vinten Vision range and high-end Sachtler ENG tripods on the other hand do not suffer this problem, but they do cost more.

Other problems with Focus is the button you press to illuminate the spirit level light, it comes off too easily, mine was not on straight, so I pub my fingernail under it and peeled it off and stuck it back on straight, very cheap.

The pan handle sucks, it is too flimsy, when extended and the head is locked off, it bends real easily, I know you would not lock head off and do this, but I do it as a test, also, if you extend the pan handle about 2 inches, it rattles inside the outer shell when you pan as it is not a snug enough fit.

Don't like the quick-release plate, why it doesn't just slide like pro tripods I don't know. It is too difficult to balance as you can't make tiny adjustments on the plate in feat of the camera falling off the head.

The locking levers for pan and tilt hurt your thumb when locking the head off, especially the one for pan (or is it tilt, sent tripod back now so can't check) as it is facing the wrong way. You also have to apply some force to get it to lock off properly with a heavy camera. Also, when unlocking them, the camera shakes so if you are recording you can't unlock the shot to go into a pan without some jerk. I know this is what the balance system is for, but the lock levers need work.

Carbon legs are pretty good, but standard non-carbon ones are terrible, the legs have 'give' at the join between lower and upper parts. If you take the head off, grab the bowl and twist back and forth you will see what I mean. Design faults all over the place in the cheaper legs.

Personally, it is not a very good tripod at all, at least not to those who know what to look for and who actually try it out in the field.

I would not recommend this tripod, I'd go for a Vinten Vision 6 or a Sachtler DV8 any day. Might cost an extra £600, but you will know where that money went.

Please don't get me wrong, this is not a bitchy post, just how I found the tripod; from a cameraman point of view. You would be better off saving your money and getting a Manfrotto 503, it's just as bad, but if you are going to buy garbage, you might as well buy cheap garbage; unless you are happy with 'locked-off' shots of course.
 
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how do i adjust the counterweight? will this fix my problem? I am actually thinking of selling this thing because i cant stand the shake when i unlock it 'cause it totally looks like crap.
 
the knob at the back is the counterweight - you should set it as low as you can while still having enough counterweight to move the camera smoothly
 
that ain't it. the lock down lever just needs to have more resistance in between being locked and not locked. i can't explain it. it just needs to tighten more smoothly and have more gradual steps to being completely tightened down. thinking about sending to a guy that i heard about that rebuilds heads and seeing if he can fix it so that it doesn't take as much effort to hold the thing in place. is anyone else anoyed with this besides me?
 
yeah, loosening up the counterbalance actually helped a lot when i loosend it all the way. tilts are pretty good now. today i learned about counterbalance. thanks!

anybody know about replacing the levers for a couple that are a little bigger though?
 
Steve55, I purchased a two stage aluminum version of this unit a few weeks ago for a sound stage shoot, and fortunately afterwards was able to return it for refund (less restocking), as I agree with several of your concerns.

In particular, I found the drift-back problem even worse than you describe it. At full zoom on a HVX -- which isn't all that telephoto -- the drift back is an obvious, significant problem.

It's also tricky to balance right. LOTS of turns of various knobs. I was comparing it to a Vinten Vision 6, which I also own, and the Vinten has niether of these problems.
 
Thank you Jarred for your review and to all for additional good information. I too am shopping for a serious tripod.

As I have already stumbled once in my quest - buying the Bogen 503 head - I would love to read some responses to Steve55's post. As he mentioned, the 503 has serious drift back or "rebound" issues, so noticeable at all focal lengths beyond wide angle as to render this head essentially useless for serious panning with smooth stops.

So, you enthusiastic Cartoni Focus owners, is this an issue with your head or not? And what about his other criticisms?

I've already been guilty of shelling out for the cheaper garbage he mentions. I want my next tripod to be the last!
 
Focus Head Gremlin?

Focus Head Gremlin?

I just did a series of shots to capture the skyline at sunset and I think I have discovered a flaw in my Focus head. Each shot was a tilt starting from about 45 degrees down to the horizon. I tried this at various tilt resistance settings while using the handle to slowly, genlty, carefully push through the tilt move. Eventually, I moved the handle to face forward, extended it as a counterweight and set the tilt resistance to zero, letting the head float down to the horizon while using the tilt lock as a brake. The free float seemed to work the best.

After reviewing the shots on my tv, I noticed that clouds appeared to move side to side as the shot drifted downward from the high angle. Some people might not notice it but I do and its definitely there. When approaching horizontal, i.e, about 20 degrees, this is no longer evident. At first I thought it was me moving the handle. However, this also happened when I let the head drift down completely by itelf--hands off the handle.

Is this a flaw or am I just expecting too much from an $1100 tripod?

As an aside, the tilt resistance knob will sometimes make a squish pop sound. Nothing leaking out but dont know what to make of it.

any feedback/opinions appreciated,
Gary
 
Sounds like your head is not balanced. Ideally the head should not move or move very little regardless of how it's tilted and the locks are off. Have you balanced your head?

The squishy noise is also normal.
 
tnle2 said:
Sounds like your head is not balanced. Ideally the head should not move or move very little regardless of how it's tilted and the locks are off. Have you balanced your head?
Click to expand...

His concerns are genuine. This head never balances perfectly with the 200. As a connoisseur of expensive tripods, I have a lot of experience with this. I am a big Cartoni fan (have Delta's), and the Focus is a lot of functionality for the money. Still, I am always hasseling with it to keep it operating as a proper fluid head should. My Vinten Vision 3 has none of these issues, and it has become primary for the 200's. The Cartoni is relegated to second camera...
 
I don't know, but it sure seems like he's operating the head in an odd way. I've never heard of anyone dialing out the fluid drag, using the pan handle as a counterweight to cause the head to drift down and then using the tilt lock as the drag. Or maybe I misunderstood his post. But more than once someone has thought their head was defective when really it was operator error because they did not have it set up correctly.
 
tnle2 said:
I don't know, but it sure seems like he's operating the head in an odd way. I've never heard of anyone dialing out the fluid drag, using the pan handle as a counterweight to cause the head to drift down and then using the tilt lock as the drag. Or maybe I misunderstood his post. But more than once someone has thought their head was defective when really it was operator error because they did not have it set up correctly.
Click to expand...

Soory, you're right. I was sort of responding to this whole phenomenon that the Focus has and that so many others have been posting about in this thread...
 
Sorry if I wasnt clear at first, the whole idea was to get a series of decending shots from dark sky moving down to a sunset on the horizon. I actually did this test over several days after discovering the problem --- evidenced by clouds at the edge of the screen moving side to side. Again this effect stopped as the motion of the camera approached horizontal, i.e. as a tree enters the shot it stays perfectly in line with the edge of the screeen.

In order to test whether or not I was the source of the side to side movements, I purposely unbalanced the head by sliding the camera (100b) forward (otherwise the head stays put as it is supposed to). That way it would drift downward by itself thus taking my hands out of the equation to the extent possible---only touching the tilt lock as the cam approaches horizontal. The side to side movement of the clouds was less evident but it remained. In all shots with full zoom, balanced or unbalanced, its definitely there.

This has to be the result of the way in which the fluid cartridge is meteriing fluid through its channels. It doesnt do it evenly when moving through high angles. I just dont know if this is a defect or standard quality for this price range.
 
I would wager a guess that the head is not intended to succeed at that sort of test - it is meant to be used while properly balanced and moved only while an operators hand is on it
 
The four socket caps secure a plastic top plate - not metal. We've broken two of them in addition to two of the flimsy arm sockets (also plastic here) under the weight of the Sony XDCam 350HD cameras.

I have no reservations recommending the Focus for lighter 1/3 form-factor cameras like the HVX. Anything over 15lbs. is pushing the specs of this particular head beyond its limits.

Our TLC series DPs quickly switched over to their own tripods (Sachtler, Vinten and Manfrotto) when the Focus heads started falling to pieces.

$.02 from the field,

e
 
Steve55 said:
Personally I can't share the enthusiasm for the Focus. I took delivery of one and sent it back due to the following characteristics that make the tripod head totally unusable for any series applications that require professional movies; there are a bunch of other gremlins with this tripod too. I've written up my own report and emailed it to Mrs Cartoni in Italy as I understand the like feedback. The owner is a bit of a perfectionist at Cartoni, so I'm hoping my comments are taken on board and they fix these issues in future.

I personally did not like the following:

I won't go into every test I do on tripods as part of my bench test, but I'll point out a few of the bad points about the Cartoni here. The first is the one that renders this tripod totally unusable for me.

I carried out my standard panning shot test. For this test I simply wind up the pan drag control about 70% of the way toward its strongest setting to aid in achieving a smooth pan with no jerky movements. I then zoom the camera right into a subject that has defined vertical lines in the scene, for this I used a high brick wall or building. Once zoomed right in with the correct exposure and focus I carry out a gentle pan to the right, then I aim to stop the pan with the horizontal edge of the building lined up with the left hand edge of the picture safety zone line on the flip-out LCD screen of the camera. The Focus head suffers from what I call serious ‘drift back’, meaning that when I get to the end of a pan and gently stop, as the head settles in the fluid, it drifts back a few millimeters. This does not sound like much, but when zoomed in this equates a very noticable movement at the edge of the frame; this looks ameturish. Most people looking at the center of the frame would not notice, but looking at the edge; forget it. This 'drift back' is glaringly obvious to professionals with a critical eye. I even slacked off the drag control so there was virtually no drag whatsoever, but still this ‘drift back’ problem was there. The Focus head is not the only head out there with this flaw, the Manfrotto 503 and 519 heads suffer from it too, only a lot worse. The Vinten Vision range and high-end Sachtler ENG tripods on the other hand do not suffer this problem, but they do cost more.

Other problems with Focus is the button you press to illuminate the spirit level light, it comes off too easily, mine was not on straight, so I pub my fingernail under it and peeled it off and stuck it back on straight, very cheap.

The pan handle sucks, it is too flimsy, when extended and the head is locked off, it bends real easily, I know you would not lock head off and do this, but I do it as a test, also, if you extend the pan handle about 2 inches, it rattles inside the outer shell when you pan as it is not a snug enough fit.

Don't like the quick-release plate, why it doesn't just slide like pro tripods I don't know. It is too difficult to balance as you can't make tiny adjustments on the plate in feat of the camera falling off the head.

The locking levers for pan and tilt hurt your thumb when locking the head off, especially the one for pan (or is it tilt, sent tripod back now so can't check) as it is facing the wrong way. You also have to apply some force to get it to lock off properly with a heavy camera. Also, when unlocking them, the camera shakes so if you are recording you can't unlock the shot to go into a pan without some jerk. I know this is what the balance system is for, but the lock levers need work.

Carbon legs are pretty good, but standard non-carbon ones are terrible, the legs have 'give' at the join between lower and upper parts. If you take the head off, grab the bowl and twist back and forth you will see what I mean. Design faults all over the place in the cheaper legs.

Personally, it is not a very good tripod at all, at least not to those who know what to look for and who actually try it out in the field.

I would not recommend this tripod, I'd go for a Vinten Vision 6 or a Sachtler DV8 any day. Might cost an extra £600, but you will know where that money went.

Please don't get me wrong, this is not a bitchy post, just how I found the tripod; from a cameraman point of view. You would be better off saving your money and getting a Manfrotto 503, it's just as bad, but if you are going to buy garbage, you might as well buy cheap garbage; unless you are happy with 'locked-off' shots of course.
Click to expand...
I agree with Steve with this entire post. I own this tripod and have noticed the same problems.

I would like to try the vision 6 but I need a 100mm bowl for my jib. ( I want to use the same sticks) so im still looking around.
 
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