Cardioid Microphone too quiet.

swiperstopswiping

swiperstopswiping

Well-known member
I have a regular (not hyper) cardioid microphone. It is a $100 microphone, so it's not a total piece. When I was testing it out, the proximity of the mic was relatively cose to the person. However, when I was testing it out, I found that the capture of the microphone is fairly quiet, and almost not audible when placed back in the NLE. Is the mic so quiet mainly because it isn't a hyper cardioid, or is this typical, and usually boosted a bit in post? I want to figure this out because I am soon getting a at-4073a, and am wondering if it would be better to use this indoors over the regular cardioid. And yes, I know that it is highly NOT recommended that shotguns are used inside.
 
ok lets run through this:

1) you did set levels (mic/line and also the gain) correctly?

2) does relatively close mean less than 30cm (not an inches person) from the mouth? because thats how close ya need to be.

3) unfortunately, and im sorry to say this, but $100 cardioids (while useful for live performances like singing on stage) are pretty crap for film dialogue capture. so i wouldnt be expecting any miracles - even the at4073a will probably yield better results a lot of the time.

4) mics recorded softer than -20dBfs will be pushing the f*cked barrier, so use that value as your "is this TOO soft" meter. more commonly, a lot of people like to record at -12 to -6 dBfs.



hope some of this helps, and let me recommend the oktava from sound room right now - $150ish, and it WILL get the job done for you without you needing to resort to a cardioid. i promise you, it wont disappoint, read up on it.
 
timapter said:
ok lets run through this:


3) unfortunately, and im sorry to say this, but $100 cardioids (while useful for live performances like singing on stage) are pretty crap for film dialogue capture. so i wouldnt be expecting any miracles - even the at4073a will probably yield better results a lot of the time.
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Oh shoot. I was afraid of that, but then again, should have expected it. I will look up on that oktava. I think it wil be either that or the CK93, which also has had some very good reviews.
 
every mic has different output level regarding the sound pressure and amplifying structure
lets say that normal cardioid will give you 10mv for 94 db at 1 meter distance
the shotgun will probbly give you 25 or more ( the 4073 is about 75 what is 16-17 db more )


what doesnt change is the fact you loose 6 db when you double the distance - so, open the fader, and if you dont have more room change the preamp or buy a hotter mic
 
timapter said:
2) does relatively close mean less than 30cm (not an inches person) from the mouth? because thats how close ya need to be.
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Is this really true? Most cardioid microphones must be approximetly 30cm to the mouth? I feel like I would have to really zoom in on someone's head or have some really good blocking techniques in order to effectively hide the microphone. Does a hyper cardioid mic like the CK93 give one more leeway when it comes to distance from the speaker's mouth??
 
na most shots, unless really wide ones, you can get 30-40cm easily away from the mouth without the mic being a worry. top of the head is very often edge of frame, if not then slightly above.
 
that 30cm guide was for a card. vocal mic, which have incredibly poor reach, they are not proper film mic's...

a ck or oktava would be a different story
 
there are few guys ( that is quit French way) working with Bayer 260 ribbon hyper cardioid on the boom - its a very low output microphone that need very good amplifier - they say its what they like :-)
 
the 30 -40 cm is not absolute distance , it more about how quit is your location ands how much reverblrss is it . if the spot is good you can work from 1and half meter above without a problem and as i pointed befor the mics are made for close miking mostly with quit low output since they have to output moderated signal in to preamp when you recording loud sources - since you are recording dialog which is not the hottest signal and place the mic 4-5 times more in distance you loose about 12 to 18 db you have to compensate with your preamp ,- that where the problem appears, if you have very high self noise mic or lousy preamp the internal noise would be noticeable inside the recording
 
You didn't say if your mic is dynamic or condenser. Dynamic mics usually need a stronger input (ie closer to the speaker).
 
yes I should clarify myself, I said 30-40cm, I meant this for quite a tight shot. the distance is always fully dependant on what the frame tells you each talent should sound like. ie, always careful that for two-deep shot, the closer actor SOUNDS closer than the deeper actor. apply same for walking towards cam etc, that the sound will naturally 'get louder'
 
its an interesting topic, in drama shows and features, this rule is true. In interview or reality, most producers are happy with it being broken,and even ask for "no perspective"
 
never do it on drama as well - its better not to live perspective and let the editor to deside - you can alwais screw good signal :-)
 
Sumfun said:
You didn't say if your mic is dynamic or condenser. Dynamic mics usually need a stronger input (ie closer to the speaker).
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I think sumfun nailed it. My money is on the fact he is using a dynamic mic. :)
 
i assumed that initially... i havent ever seen a $100 condensor cardioid.. yet. someone will no doubt link me to something made in outer mongolia.
 
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