Canon Reveals Their Next Pro Video Cam

With a 922,000 dot Hi-Res LCD on the VIXIA HF S21, I think its safe to assume that the combo EVF/LCD of the new model will be Hi-Resolution.
 
The HV20 didn't come out a whole long time after the A1. I don't know what the pixel counts are, but the HV20's LCD pretty much smokes the A1's.
 
EX1= worst to hand hold.
XL series = second (having owned and shot with XL2's for about a year I couldn't wait to dump it)
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I never cared for HH with the XL2, and I used one many, many times. The weight seems to cause you to hold it up at the base of your hand with your wrist bent, jamming your elbow into your mid section to balance it.
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Definition of ergonomics:
Ergonomics (or human factors) is the scientific discipline concerned with the understanding of interactions among humans and other elements of a system, and the profession that applies theory, principles, data and methods to design in order to optimize human well-being and overall system performance.

My understanding is that your criticism of XL &XH ergonomics more based on the "human well being" or "comfort" side. You may be right especially if you are used to using chest supportable camcorders like HMC150, XH-A1, HPX170, Z5U/Z7U etc. You really need to modify your HH behaivour to adapt to XL. If you can place the back part of the XL on your shoulder and place the viewfinder firmly on your face it is really easy to balance with lens hand. However any other situations(high angles) indeed place strain on your wrists & arms.

My point of liking the design is more based on the "system performance" side, because I believe the design lends itself to fully utilize the 20x telephoto with minimal shaking. I found it to be extremely useful in certain situations(i.e photo sessions where photographer using telephoto lens so you have to shoot next to him, or ceremony & receptions to keep your distance from the people to be less invasive etc)
 
Well, okay then. I didn't care for it's "human well being" when using it, and found less "comfort" than on other machines, be that large cameras balanced on the shoulder, or smaller cams held to th chest as you say.
 
Robert M Wright said:
The HV20 didn't come out a whole long time after the A1. I don't know what the pixel counts are, but the HV20's LCD pretty much smokes the A1's.
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What? I own the A1 and have used the HV20 and HV30 on many occasions. The LCD on the HV are simply terrible compared to the A1! Very low res. The A1's LCD is small but it's amongst the sharpest out there, second only to the excellent EX1. Compare that to the HVX, the HPX and the HMC, FX7 etc. and the difference is night and day.
 
I hate the screen. And I also hate the screw on the lcd arm that unscews itself. And the record button on top that jams to teh side because its cheaply designed.

Bought mine in 2006 and stuck with it now haha. Nah its a great cam. Not buying the new ones though.

I
 
I should note I used the A1 a few times and liked it quite a bit. It just seems to me that they only thing new here is writing to SD cards, which is nice. But I was hoping for a bigger chip, better low-light performance, and a lens with actual stops (hate, HATE infinity-spinner lenses!). Especially as you can get that in the DSLRs. Waveform and histogram monitors would be nice too, but not quite as important. I can live with the LCD and viewfinder.
 
Canon isn't likely to abandon their XL series lenses (1/3" mount). That said, according to Canon, their new prosumer camcorder is going to be an entirely new design. It would be pretty surprising if it doesn't perform notably better than the XL-H1 and XH-A1/G1 (essentially designed about 5 years earlier). They aren't just taking the old design and recycling it, by merely replacing HDV image recording with AVCHD image recording.
 
Robert M Wright said:
Canon isn't likely to abandon their XL series lenses (1/3" mount). That said, according to Canon, their new prosumer camcorder is going to be an entirely new design. It would be pretty surprising if it doesn't perform notably better than the XL-H1 and XH-A1/G1 (essentially designed about 5 years earlier). They aren't just taking the old design and recycling it, by merely replacing HDV image recording with AVCHD image recording.
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I have to agree with you on this one, Robert. I remember talking to a Canon rep years ago, just before they introduced the XLH1 and their line of HDV cameras. I asked the rep why Canon hadn't released an HD camera yet, since everyone else had. The rep said "Canon is not interested in being the first to introduce a technology, just the best." And, well, when their HDV cameras came out, it was pretty much game over for every other HDV camera. I have a lot of faith that when they do release a solid state camcorder, it's going to be one badass machine.
 
I agree with Robert and Cowpunk .. there'll be some new stuff under the hood. Canon are just doing their thing .. not first but best the definition of a class act.

Cheers.
 
Same agreement here.

Even today, the XL H1s performs extremely well in comparison to what is out there.

And this is a camera whose technology was designed 5+ years ago.

Canon may always be the last to come out, but it usually is the best within its class.
 
I'm looking forward to this as a potential counterpart to the 7D as a B-cam for shots that simply can't be done with a 7D, namely fast moving pans that would be jello hell.

Hope they don't charge an arm and a leg for it.
.
 
puredrifting said:
20X zoom has been a Canon selling feature for almost as long a they have made prosumer cameras, going back to the GL2, I think, maybe even the GL1. They think that people who are buying these to do weddings, events and corporate care more about that than imager size. Bottom line is that it is very difficult to shoot shallow DOF accurately by yourself. If you care about hitting focus marks, it generally takes an AC and all that comes with that. Canon knows that people who shoot weddings/corporate events are going to be operating alone. In these cases, deep DOF can be seen as a plus.
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Exactly. The GL2's 20X zoom is exactly why there's one of those on my shelf instead of a DVX100B. (That said, I will also echo puredrifting's comments on it breaking. :) ) Similarly, when it came time to buy an HD cam for one of our offices, the XH-A1s was the obvious choice (not only for the extra zoom over the HMC150, but also because our existing editing gear could handle HDV and not AVCHD). If the day ever does come that we look at tapeless, an AVCHD version of the A1s would be very attractive (assuming they keep that 20X).
 
Captain Pierce said:
If the day ever does come that we look at tapeless, an AVCHD version of the A1s would be very attractive (assuming they keep that 20X).
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In a relatively short time, it might be difficult to find a new camcorder that does shoot to tape.

I don't know how attractive an AVCHD version of the A1s would really be at this point. The imaging block in Canon's pro HDV cams was excellent for when it came out, and still not bad even in 2010, but it is getting dated. That imaging block struggles in low light, compared to newer offerings from the other majors, and higher resolution imaging blocks are now starting to become a bit more desirable, with AVCHD compression than with HDV compression. HDV simply can't really record much more detail than the Canon HDV pro camcorders' imaging blocks can deliver, but AVCHD can. Take a look at the highly detailed images coming out of an HMC40, and imaging blocks that deliver around 700 lines start looking a little bit anemic.
 
Frankly, I've got to think that the low resolution imaging block in the HMC150 is going to hurt sales considerably, when the new Sony AVCHD cams start shipping, and even more so if Canon delivers notably higher resolution images from it's new solid state cam (which is awfully likely), especially if Canon does go with CCDs and yet somehow crank out at least a solid 800+ lines from the new block.
 
Why should it hurt anything? The HVX200 sold tens of thousands of copies, with "higher def" Sony and Canon models competing with it. Not everyone obsesses over counting pixels, and the HMC150 is "the last great CCD camcorder".

Logic would dictate that the DVX100 should have died off long ago, since it's only standard-def, but it keeps selling and selling and selling, it's like the Energizer bunny. Some people need the incredible low light performance, some need the tape, some just want standard-def DV.

With the HMC150, it's a complete package, it makes a great image, it does 720/60p and it does it all with a CCD and great low light performance. If people want CMOS, there are lots of choices for that. And if Canon has higher-resolution CCDs, then it's almost a guarantee that it won't have 720/60p, just like the earlier Canon models didn't have it.
 
The difference, in viewing images out of an HVX200 and the HDV camcorders (especially of it's generation), isn't nearly as noticeable as the difference between viewing 1080 line images out of an HMC150 and an HMC40 (at least to my eyes).

Resolution isn't everything, but it's not exactly trivial.
 
Galleddrim said:
If any of the Canon HD cameras were true progressive and solid state I'd have gotten one already.
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The A1/G1 record true progressive to tape. In progressive mode they deliver no less vertical resolution than the 200/170/150, and much higher resolution in native interlaced mode. Its MPEG-2 encoder is better than Sony's even when compared to the latest generation of Sony products like the Z5/Z7. The problems are (in my mind):
* non-repeatable focus wheel
* flaky design of the built-in mic, it can be torn off easily
* small and low res LCD
* no color peaking, though after using the V1 for some time I think it is not such a great feature
* oh, tape-based, though for some it is a benefit

Barry said it is a reboot of the A1. Nothing wrong with that. It is great hardware and great MPEG-2 codec. I will appreciate AVCHD, but if Canon provides an option of "tapeless HDV" (in MPEG transport stream) or XDCAM EX, it will be even more attractive to some. With my 4-core machine I can edit HDV like it was DV, but with AVCHD it is more struggle.

Also, no one offers DV anymore. If Canon offered DV it would stand out and again can be attractive to many.

ATL Media Group said:
I'm sorry, but that thing is frikkin' UGLY!
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No uglier than the HMC40 I would say.

As to 720p60, who cares. The 200/170/150 do not resolve more than ~540 lines vertically, the A1/G1 are about the same. In the end, 1080i60 from the A1/G1 deinterlaced to 720p60 will have about the same resolution as native 720p60 off Panasonic cams.

I hope Canon brings something new - or rather, old and forgotten like DV - to the table, something different from Pana and Sony.
 
Cranky said:
As to 720p60, who cares.
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Generally, I much prefer viewing 720p60 footage - and especially prefer it to 1080 line video, recorded with only 600-700ish lines of detail in the first place.

At this point, it would be really tough to get me interested in a cam that is unable to record 720p60. The HMC40 delivers gorgeous 720p60 right out of the cam (with way over 540 lines of detail, and with very little compression artifacting). I've done the 1080i60 to 720p60 thingy in post, and I'm just not interested at all in having to do that with a new cam, made in 2010 and costing thousands, when affordable cams are available (and becoming available) to record 720p60 properly in the first place now, with absolutely stunning quality.

If the new Canon produces absolutely gorgeous 1080 line video, even matching the quality of 1080 line footage out of an EX1, yet can't record 720p60, it simply won't get much more than a mild yawn out of me.
 
I'm hopeful that Canon will come out with a new camcorder that bests the NX5U, but if not, that NX5U is already looking pretty nice for a cam with three 1/3" imaging chips that can deliver at least respectably high resolution images (recorded in any HD format), at less than $4k.
 
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