Canon Reveals Their Next Pro Video Cam

puredrifting said:
Ho-hum, another AVCHD camcorder, big whoop. For low end production, I like the 150 and the new Sonys look to be pretty sweet as well. Can't see much of what Canon is bringing to the party that isn't already there.
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Canon really hasn't offered up any detail about their new camcorder, so we really don't know hardly anything about it yet, aside from it will look a lot like an A1/G1 and be solid state. They didn't even confirm it will record AVCHD (although that does seem like a fairly safe bet). Bottom line, we don't have much of a clue yet what Canon will be bringing to the party.

Ho-hum? Canon doesn't make a habit of delivering ho-hum products, when they introduce entirely new prosumer camcorders. Sure, their incremental minor changes to an existing line can be yawn inspiring, but their completely new prosumer video camcorders do tend to deliver at least something rather noteworthy.
 
If this camera is cheap and awesome in lowlight, I'll probably be selling a chunk of my DSLRs and going back to a 35mm Adapter setup...
 
You know, last time around, Canon pretty much smacked all the other camcorder manufacturer's upside the head, showing that you could take a pretty conventionally designed CCD, and record dang decent interlaced AND progressive images. Their relatively conventionally designed interlaced 1440x1080 CCDs pretty much just knocked the snot out of anything else out there, when it came to real-world performance. They didn't try to pixel-shift a low res progressive CCD beyond belief, nor did they get cute with a radically new approach and deliver us split screen issues - just got practical with proven technology, and gave us the sharpest interlaced AND progressive images coming from any camcorder anywhere near it's class.

I don't know what Canon will actually deliver this time, but it's probably a safe bet that it will definitely not be anything science fiction like, but rather be well thought out instead, and simply perform quite well for a camcorder introduced in 2010.
 
Canon is always the last company to bring new technology, from digital to HDV to whatever is next. But when they come out with a product, they usually make an impression!... I wish they updated their video line more often but they usually get all the details right.

Now if someone could put a higher res LCD on my HMC150, I would be a happy camper!...
They expect us to focus with a crappy LCD on a sensor that is lower res than the frame it produces, I don't know about you guys but i find it to be a little hard! and i don't even need glasses! So much for HighDef panny!
 
I don't know that the LCD or viewfinder needs to have resolution that's equal to that of the image being recorded, but at least a megapixel would be nice!
 
I can respect what you are saying Robert but you should know about my Canon experiences. I bought a couple of Canon GL2s back in 2002 to make a long form documentary feature. Great cameras, nice images, good lenses. They broke. A lot. Both of them. FF four years, I am working at a production company and I am going to be hanging out on the set of a certain Fox series that shot in Texas, shooting EPK and DVD material. I am required to use the then brand new XL-H1. Worst ergonomics of any camera I have used except the EX1 and a useless ultra low res VF that looks more like a moving fax than a video image. No flip out screen, about 35% of my footage is out of focus because it is run and gun, no time or crew to use a monitor. Images look okay but nothing to write home about. FF 2009, I am in France, shooting a doc with my new Canon 5D MKII. No complaints, other than shooting a DSLR is not like shooting with a video camera, sound, focus and dealing with 30p is a PITA but not Canon's fault. OTOH, the images are great, when I can keep them in focus, even with the Zacuto Z-Finder, it is tough.

So, to summarize, I have seen beautiful images from all of the Canon pro and DSLR cameras. Canon knows how to make good lenses. Ergonomics are almost always awful, sound is usually pretty bad as well. Not the worst camera on the market but definitely not the best. Most of my work is seen on TV so the whole pixel shifting and native interlaced vs. progressive issues are moot for me, I don't care about native 1080, etc. I now have the HPX170 and am very happy with it, it is the HD version of my DVX100A that I always longed for.

Based upon this prototype, which you are right, could totally change and it is not clear what is what on it as far as functionality and specs, it would be nice if Canon got their act together. If this is just basically an XA-H1 with AVCHD instead of HDV, I think that Canon will be wasting their time.

Dan
 
I think it might be a good run n gun cam, canon's a1's auto focus is almost instant (best I have seen in a hand held), OIS rocks (best I have seen in a handheld) and the 20x glass on it is very nice, the top of the bracket for fixed lens handhelds, with 2 sd card slots you should be able to record for 10 hours in avchd without changing cards and I'd bet they will be sdxc compatible for the new high capacity sd cards.

It should be a great run n gun or long form event cam. I do wish the audio was better though. HPX170 wins hands down on that one.
 
Awesome. Just what I've been wanting, a tapeless XH-A1, and with 2 card slots to boot. They even went with that Sony-style of flip-out LCD. Hopefully this means we'll get a 3.5 inch screen this time out instead of the XH-A1's 2.8 inch one.

If this has improved low light abilities compared to their HDV line (which I'd be surprised if they didn't), then this is a no brainer for me. Perfect for both weddings/events and my filmmaking stuff. I will just add a 7D to my kit as a secondary camera for weddings and a main one for filmmaking.

As for the whole CCD vs. CMOS issue, I'd rather have CCD in this new model. Sure I'll gladly take progressive CCD's if that's what's in there, but Canon has been able to do 24p in the A1 and H1 line so if this new cam is interlaced CCD's with their 24F method of 24p I'm completely fine with that too. I really don't give a rat's ass as long as the final image looks good.

Also, for weddings and events, I'd rather not deal with the weird rolling shutter flash effects that CMOS sensors can create. And when I need to shoot some crazy-frantic handheld stuff, CCD holds up a bit better for that as well, especially compared to video-DSLR's.

ChipG said:
It should be a great run n gun or long form event cam. I do wish the audio was better though. HPX170 wins hands down on that one.
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Pany always seems to be really kick ass about onboard audio. Having said that though, my A1 has done all I've needed it to do audio-wise so I think I'll be fine with another Canon.
 
I tend to agree with Dan on this potential release.

If I were in the market to buy soon, and focused on filmmaking, I'd take this as an indication that it's okay to go ahead and buy the Canon 7D, or Mark IV, and make sure to get a good audio set-up, lenses, and Z-Finder to go with it. IMO you'd get much more film-like image, much more shallow DOF (and controllable for the most part), better low light performance, ability to work with .mov files to FCP. And Canon seems seriously dedicated to their high-end DSLR's, with their video line-up as an afterthought sometimes. Now, you'd have to be careful shooting to avoid rolling shutter problems and with hand held, but the camera won't be obsolete for some time, and isn't to be replaced likely in 2010 by some new camera with the same specs, but in an ergonomic camcorder form with XLR inputs.

Oh, and you'd also have a super-awesome 20mp still camera!
 
snowleopard said:
I tend to agree with Dan on this potential release.

If I were in the market to buy soon, and focused on filmmaking, I'd take this as an indication that it's okay to go ahead and buy the Canon 7D, or Mark IV, and make sure to get a good audio set-up, lenses, and Z-Finder to go with it. IMO you'd get much more film-like image, much more shallow DOF (and controllable for the most part), better low light performance, ability to work with .mov files to FCP. And Canon seems seriously dedicated to their high-end DSLR's, with their video line-up as an afterthought sometimes. Now, you'd have to be careful shooting to avoid rolling shutter problems and with hand held, but the camera won't be obsolete for some time, and isn't to be replaced likely in 2010 by some new camera with the same specs, but in an ergonomic camcorder form with XLR inputs.

Oh, and you'd also have a super-awesome 20mp still camera!
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Unless you need longer record times. I'd probably go for the Sony NXCam if that were the case. This ugly thing with the goofy square viewfinder could go pound sand unless it does something extraordinary which I doubt based on first reports and pics.
Looks like AVCHD tapeless A1. Big whoop.
 
I sat and thought about it for awhile. Canon always innovates in some way that is substantial and yields a real-world benefit, yet pretty conservatively (nothing that's remotely akin to science fiction like), when they introduce a new prosumer video camcorder (every not-so-very-often). They might break a convention (like recording 24F as natively progressive encoded MPEG-2 video - technically outside the HDV spec, but not exactly eye-brow raising radical).

My prediction is that the most likely major innovation this time around, will be to offer the option of recording AVC encoded footage at 32Mbps - stepping a bit outside the AVCHD spec, but not really radically, when you stop and think about it. Doing so would offer a genuine real-world benefit, essentially offering compression that rivals AVC-Intra (image quality wise - especially the AVC-I 50Mbps flavor), yet doesn't depend on unproven technology or anything particularly expensive (AVC compression is still young, but is definitely well within the realm of mainstream technology now, and up to 32GB Class-6 SDHC cards are neither very expensive nor hard to come by nowadays, and quite adequate for reasonably reliable recording at 32Mbps).
 
It will be interesting to see what their full range of solid state camcorders are going to show. While this is just an indication, it would be nice for Canon to experiment a bit more. It was surprising to read that they did not expect the reaction they got from releasing the 5D MkII with full HD. Good to see something new can come out of Canon.
 
Robert M Wright said:
My prediction is that the most likely major innovation this time around, will be to offer the option of recording AVC encoded footage at 32Mbps - stepping a bit outside the AVCHD spec, but not really radically, when you stop and think about it. Doing so would offer a genuine real-world benefit, essentially offering compression that rivals AVC-Intra (image quality wise - especially the AVC-I 50Mbps flavor), yet doesn't depend on unproven technology or anything particularly expensive (AVC compression is still young, but is definitely well within the realm of mainstream technology now, and up to 32GB Class-6 SDHC cards are neither very expensive nor hard to come by nowadays, and quite adequate for reasonably reliable recording at 32Mbps).
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That would be a nice option. During the HDV days, Canon had the best HDV codec compared to Sony and JVC, so hopefully they'll offer some strong codec competition in the AVC arena as well.

I really hope they allow for native 24p recording again like they have with the XL-H1 and XH-A1 lines. I don't want to have to put up with any pull-down removal crap.
 
The 32Mbps AVC option is wishful, although not entirely off-the-wall, when you consider that it really would not be all that radical or risky (especially as an option, while still being able to record AVCHD that is 100% compliant with the formal spec).

The native 24p is pretty much a given. They aren't going to throw us 24p in a 60i wrapper, in a prosumer camcorder, at this point.
 
I am required to use the then brand new XL-H1. Worst ergonomics of any camera I have used except the EX1 and a useless ultra low res VF that looks more like a moving fax than a video image. No flip out screen, about 35% of my footage is out of focus because it is run and gun, no time or crew to use a monitor. Images look okay but nothing to write home about.
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Worst ergonomics? Can it be because you simply didn't have enough experience with this camera? Quite honestly, it was the only camera(I used XL2, same design) that I could get excellent handhold footage in extreme telephoto. (excluding real shoulder cams)
Also, if you are runnin' & gunnin' you should have relied on auto focus more, as Canons have excellent auto focus function especially in good light.
As for the images, I think it is unmatched if you can tweak it properly.
 
VGurcu said:
Worst ergonomics? Can it be because you simply didn't have enough experience with this camera? Quite honestly, it was the only camera(I used XL2, same design) that I could get excellent handhold footage in extreme telephoto. (excluding real shoulder cams)
Also, if you are runnin' & gunnin' you should have relied on auto focus more, as Canons have excellent auto focus function especially in good light.
As for the images, I think it is unmatched if you can tweak it properly.
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EX1= worst to hand hold.
XL series = second (having owned and shot with XL2's for about a year I couldn't wait to dump it)

I'd say he was spot on.
 
Ergonomically, the HMC40 is by far the best camcorder I've ever shot with. On the whole, for shooting more than even 5 minutes continuously hand-held, it's almost a perfect blend of light but not to light, small but not to small, with controls that are remarkably well thought out and laid out for the size and shape of the chassis.
 
I never cared for HH with the XL2, and I used one many, many times. The weight seems to cause you to hold it up at the base of your hand with your wrist bent, jamming your elbow into your mid section to balance it. Even with a shoulder stock, this still seems awkward and you grow tired of it. I don't own an EX1, but this seems to have an even bigger problem in that you can't hold it up to/on shoulder in any real way, and if you hold it low, like you would the A1 (which I do like the balance of a lot) for example, it gets heavy and cumbersome. Great looking picture though, that's for sure.

But I guess it's just an issue with comparison and trade offs. Comparing the XL H1 (or EX1) to a full sized camcorder that's triple the cost isn't fair. And I'd rather have one of these for the overall picture and build quality than many prosumer camcorders.

The one thing I always hated and will flatly say sucked dirt clods on the XL2 was the viewfinder. That was a lousy compromise if you ask me. I hope in these new models that thing is gone once and for all.
 
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