Canon EOS C100

philiplipetz said:
AVCHD is higher contrast
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...OK, you lost me here?

AVCHD is a compression scheme just like any other CODEC, I don't see how it introduces any additional contrast to the video it contains.

Both the C300 and C100 produce 8-bit video using the SAME sensor, so I would expect the contrast to be essentially the same.

The C300 can do internal 4:2:2 recording, so the internal color would be better than the C100, but the addition of an external recorder to the C100 should take of this issue.
 
I think the camera looks great. Sure, some of the shots were graded a bit to heavy for vimeo to handle. But the way that they were able to get shots handheld in extreme conditions proves this camera will be awesome for Doc work and event work. Not everything is a narrative feature filmed. Price is fair considering that the camera has it all built it and you won't be spending all that money for ND's, Evf, sound, exposure monitoring and such. Great camera. Don't like it? Don't buy it.
 
jimagine said:
Why not just put this at the top of all forums and not have discussion?

Seriously, let people express their thoughts without being so consistently pretentious.
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LOL. Based on your comment, that is the pot calling the kettle black. I based my opinion, and I stated the obvious in the free market. Pretentious? LOL!
 
Look closely at face closeups, highlights have a sharp lines separating them from the color gradients. Really sharp. Not Vimeo but camera.
Then they tried to cover up details in post, like when the jeep is on the mountain road they blur above and below the road to prevent you from seeing what happens to leaves in a pan. Then look at how faces loose detail in shadow. I would never ever see this on a C300.
 
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philiplipetz said:
I would never ever see this on a C300.
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...So you think it's poor quality AVCHD encoding, that might be fixed by an external recorder?

Both cameras use the same sensor, so in theory the images they produce should be pretty much the same. ( I would expect some detail loss when things are in motion with the lower AVCHD bit-rate )
 
TheDingo said:
...So you think it's poor quality AVCHD encoding, that might be fixed by an external recorder?

Both cameras use the same sensor, so in theory the images they produce should be pretty much the same. ( I would expect some detail loss when things are in motion with the lower AVCHD bit-rate )
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I hope so, but what I really hope is that this example of AVCHD breakdown is due the DP and not the camera. There is some pretty aggressive grading in this video, not only does it hide detail but it breaks the image. I expect the external recorder streams to be the same, but what I see here is not usable so this camera would become an external head only, not a portable self contained unit. But I really really hope that this video is not representative. If it is we are canceling. I can't believe that Canon would make this great an error simply to differentiate the C100 from the C300.

BUT WHAT WERE THEY THINKING WHEN THEY POSTED THIS VIDEO?
 
TheDingo said:
Both cameras use the same sensor, so in theory the images they produce should be pretty much the same.
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There's much more to a camera than just the sensor. The F3 is rated at ISO 800, and the FS100 is 320, and they use the same sensor...

The processing behind the sensor is probably equally important to the actual choice of sensor used. Unless you're shooting raw, in which case there is no processing...

I don't know if the C100 and C300 use the same processing engine and all. If they do, and they use the same sensor, then you should expect that they could make comparable images.
 
philiplipetz said:
Then they tried to cover up details in post, like when the jeep is on the mountain road they blur above and below the road to prevent you from seeing what happens to leaves in a pan.
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I think that is a creative decision they made to "stylize" the footage. Similar to the opening scenes.

This is not uncommon from Canon. Their sample images are often not the greatest.

I don't know what they shot in. The base footage looks likes a "Standard" profile on one of their cameras, not log, etc. I think much more subtle handling of the base image is possible from what I have seen of the C300.

You would know best about the iPad, but how do other things look? What is the gamma?

On my 2.2 gamma, 120 lumen, calibrated 24" monitor, it looks similar to sRBG still images from a Canon "Standard" or "Landscape" profile. Lacking subtlty, just pop for the web.

We will see.

Michael
 
unadog said:
I think that is a creative decision they made to "stylize" the footage. Similar to the opening scenes.

This is not uncommon from Canon. Their sample images are often not the greatest.

I don't know what they shot in. The base footage looks likes a "Standard" profile on one of their cameras, not log, etc. I think much more subtle handling of the base image is possible from what I have seen of the C300.

You would know best about the iPad, but how do other things look? What is the gamma?

On my 2.2 gamma, 120 lumen, calibrated 24" monitor, it looks similar to sRBG still images from a Canon "Standard" or "Landscape" profile. Lacking subtlty, just pop for the web.

We will see.

Michael
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Isn't subtlety what is supposed to be in a Cinema camera, and wasn't that the great concern about using AVCHD?
 
...Pulling the complete Canon Sample Vimeo video off the web, the sample they posted is extremely low quality.

Here are the specs on the Vimeo sample video:

CanonVimeoSample.jpg

So I would not judge this camera on this low resolution Vimeo video.
 
Looks more versatile than the BMC from the BTS I saw, great for our work! The heavy grading tells us it can hold up to grading better than my T4i / 5D Mark 3, Sold! Just wish this vid was 1080p to see the full potential. Here is the BTS btwweb.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/cinemaeos/c100/ Plus if we need slow mo we just reach for DSLRS or just rent FS700 for the day =)
 
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TheDingo said:
...Pulling the complete Canon Sample Vimeo video off the web, the sample they posted is extremely low quality.

Here are the specs on the Vimeo sample video:

View attachment 59762

So I would not judge this camera on this low resolution Vimeo video.
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Yep, let's wait a bit before we pre-judge....I suspect that it was a bad upload on vimeo

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com
 
The footage looked fine to me. More videos will be released, with camera reviews. It won't sell until late November, so there's no rush to judgement.
I still like the form factor.
 
I just rechecked Vimeo and the Canon C100 Sample movie is now 720p. Still not 1080p, but this is better...

CanonSample2a.jpg
 
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...I converted the 720p Flash FLV video to uncompressed AVI so I could walk through the film frame-by-frame, and I now realize that this video is definitely NOT for critical evaluation of the camera. There are tons of focusing errors in this film, which makes me think that the film-makers should have been using a larger field monitor when shooting. So much of the film is out of focus, and it's only hidden by the fast cutting and lower resolution of Vimeo.
 
philiplipetz said:
Backlight blow out on faces. DR or codec problem?
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Philip,

to my eye it looks like a combination of several things: DR of subject that goes beyond 12 stops ( with insufficient fill lighting so the shot ends up being too contrasty, under-exposed in places and over-exposed in places at the same time ), bad makeup application ( the faces look oily/greasy, thus they reflect the light light-source behind or off to the side of the subject ), bad grading that is upping the contrast of the shot.

Coming from a couple of years of shooting with the GH2, all this looks normal to me. This Canon camera is not an Alexa or Epic with 14+ stops of DR, so you have to know how to light and expose for the 12 stops it does have.

Here are some frame grabs, with some shots that show the high contrast image problems that I don't think are inherent to the C100 camera:

C100 02.jpg
C100 03.jpg
C100 04.jpg
C100 05.jpg
C100 06.jpg
C100 07.jpg
C100 08.jpg
C100 09.jpg
 
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He said that he was asked to use a certain picture profile called "Wide DR Gamma," and that it is [80%] of C-Log and that "you have no obligation to color grading."

He begins to talk about this at around 2:05
https://vimeo.com/49198191#

He also states that he crushed the blacks far on purpose.
 
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