Canon a no-show?

refocusedmedia

refocusedmedia

Veteran
Seriously, did they send the second unit or something? Instead of revealing any new innovations they announce how you can finance their overpriced products. Woohoo!
 
Canon had an absolutely massive booth and a theater. To call them a "no-show" would be exactly the opposite of what they did. I didn't compare but my guess is their booth was on par with the monstrously big Sony booth.

NAB is not all about announcing new products, it's about showing your product line. They had a big product line. And they rarely ever announce new products at NAB; they announce at whenever they want, sometimes at events of their own invention (such as when they set up a special event specifically for the introduction of the EOS Cinema C300).
 
Not only did Canon have their theater, they had the stage out in front of their booth with speakers lined up all day.
True, they didn't have new products to announce - but seems like most people criticized them last year for releasing too many cameras too close to eachother.

I agree that most of their cinema line seems overpriced given the market - but I have to agree with Barry that they were by no means a 'no show.'
 
Ok, I get that.

I just meant a no-show in terms of what non-attendees care about (which would be the majority of people, btw).. which is debuting new innovations, products, enhancements, etc. They essentially had some new financing details and firmware and that's about it. Or at least, that's what people have taken away from it.

So perhaps they had a big presence on the floor, but to most people I'd argue they definitely came across as a no-show.
 
refocusedmedia said:
Ok, I get that.

I just meant a no-show in terms of what non-attendees care about (which would be the majority of people, btw).. which is debuting new innovations, products, enhancements, etc. They essentially had some new financing details and firmware and that's about it. Or at least, that's what people have taken away from it.

So perhaps they had a big presence on the floor, but to most people I'd argue they definitely came across as a no-show.
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So are they to just announce more cameras because some other company does? 4 cameras last year in the C line. All very nice cameras.
Dude, Canon announces cameras on their own dates. Nearly everyone knows that. Obviously Canon isn't at NAB looking for Diamond awards like some companies.

About price. Sure, Canon could think about reducing their prices (WHICH THEY HAVE) but I bet you everyone that shoots with a C300 or C100 will tell you that after a week of shooting with the camera they don't regret the purchase one bit. I'm a guy that sold my BMC and bought a C100 because I rented a C300 and loved it. If the BMC4k proves to have a nice image I will possibly buy that too. But it won't be because of it's price. It will be because of it's performance.

Canon reduced the C100's price 3 weeks after I bought it. Am I mad? No. I just had bad luck in timing. The camera has already paid itself off. It's a total joy to work with. Expensive? Maybe for some. Worth it? For me, every penny. Now if it were just not as hard to rent a C300. Man, they are always out. I wonder why????

I think they were a no show to you. And you're trolling.
 
XA-25 has got to be exciting for anyone who wants a babycam w/ HD-SDI.

I know there were a lot of rumors going around about a C200 or C50, but I think it would've been out of character for Canon to announce something like that at NAB. It would've been cool, but I wasn't going to bet it would happen.

When I think of Canon's release schedule think of these two things:

XF300 & C300

1. The XF300, in my opinion, is the response to the HVX200. Small, tapeless camera. XF300 wasn't released until 2010, half a decade after the HVX200, three years after the EX1. And both of those cameras were refreshed before the XF300 came out (HVX200a & EX1r).

2. The C300 was released after the Panasonic AF100 & Sony FS100. Canon took its sweet time getting the camera to the market. To design the C300 from the ground up in under 3 years after the 5Dii was released says Canon took it seriously & didn't wait too long. But I did read a quote that they made it in "two years," which implies that they still sat on their hands for a year after the 5Dii shook up the video world before thinking that they should do something about it.

If Canon was a company to rush into the newest fad as quickly as possible, we would've seen a mock up 5Dii w/ XLRs at NAB 2009, just 6 months after the 5Dii was released.

I personally feel like we probably won't see anything new from Canon on the cinema line for a year, but probably another two. Though it is a safe bet to think a 7Dii will be announced at anytime, but probably nothing else that would set DVXUsers fire.
 
I think this is coming from a place of mismatched expectations. People who expect the companies to introduce something every NAB, will be disappointed, because the companies simply do NOT introduce new stuff solely, exclusively, or necessarily even frequently, at NAB.

Secondly, I think people are still buying into those stupid-ass rumor sites that make stuff up and post it as if it's news. So no wonder people get all bent out of shape when there isn't a C50, or a C200, or an AF200 or whatever. There never was going to be such a product anyway, and it's those dumb rumor sites that get people all worked up. Somewhere, someone thinks it's funny to troll a rumor site with some amazing new announcement, just so they can watch how the entire camcorder community goes head over heels for whatever new product is supposed to be introduced, when it was always a lie... there is no OIS version of the 7-14 Lumix lens, regardless of how many rumor sites said there would be. The AF100 wasn't discontinued in 2011, regardless of how many rumor sites said it was. There never was a Lumix 12-50 f/2.8-3.3 lens, regardless of how many rumor sites swore up and down that there was one. And there never was going to be an EOS C50 at this year's show, regardless of how many rumor sites said that there was going to be.

The rumor sites are absolutely and completely unreliable. Ignore them and you'll find life flows a lot smoother and you won't be tossed around with every breeze that some liar makes up and "leaks" to a rumor site, who then prints that it's an "FT5" or "CR4" or "our trusted source" blah blah.

(and do I really think people make stuff up, just to troll the internet and get people's panties in a bunch? Why, yes I do...)
 
refocusedmedia said:
Ok, I get that.

I just meant a no-show in terms of what non-attendees care about (which would be the majority of people, btw).. which is debuting new innovations, products, enhancements, etc. They essentially had some new financing details and firmware and that's about it. Or at least, that's what people have taken away from it.

So perhaps they had a big presence on the floor, but to most people I'd argue they definitely came across as a no-show.
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Wait, wait, wait, wait... You're calling Canon a no-show to an event in which they had a huge presence and that you didn't show up to?



Has the internet always been this way or am I just getting curmudgeony? :)

I'm just taking the piss, but seriously, Barry is right. NAB isn't always about new product releases, and for Canon I don't think it ever has been.
 
I for one in a way wish these camera companies would release less cameras. Or at least slow down and just release the cameras that actually make a substantial improvement. Man, it's 2013 and we have just how many high quality large sensor cameras to choose from? I'm still a big fan of the AF100. Great camera packed with great features. Many people continue to create great work with it. I settled on the C100 because it fits my ecosystem of EOS glass and HDslrs for my stills shooting (And I can match to my 5dmk2 and 3 with the C100 for multi cam very easily). Otherwise, I'd still be shooting with the AF100 and I'd still be very happy.

I've seen lots of people post frame grabs of various "new" cameras. Some look nice and some are so-so. But lately when I get an itch for some new camera I always visit one of our own forum members post where he shows off grabs from the AF100. That member is Shooter. His work with the AF100 is so darn tasty that it tells me it's more about talent than it is camera specs. And all the while he's shooting top notch work with a camera that must have paid itself off 10,000x's over.
 
refocusedmedia said:
First off, I'm hardly the first to have this thought. It's been all over Twitter, for one.

Secondly, I did forget about the new XF cameras.

Lastly, you know I'm not a troll so please spare me.
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First, I think Barry addressed this for you and I agree with him.
Secondly, Canon announced XA cameras not XF.
Third and finally, your first post and topic in general defines the meaning of trolling

Tell me the last camera Canon announced at NAB? If Canon upsets you, there are all sorts of companies making nice cameras. Sony, Panny, JVC, RED, Arri, BMD, Nikon, and many more.

By the way, were you at NAB this year?
 
refocusedmedia said:
First off, I'm hardly the first to have this thought. It's been all over Twitter, for one.

Secondly, I did forget about the new XF cameras.

Lastly, you know I'm not a troll so please spare me.
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Agreed - let's keep it civil.
There is no problem with discussing our thoughts on Canon's approach to NAB - and there is no problem with disagreeing with one another.
But once personal slams start getting thrown around we've crossed a line.

As far as Canon's announcements go - I think it was kind of to be expected.
I'm not sure why people are surprised they didn't have any new cinema cameras this year - keep in mind NAB 2012 was really a huge year for them. Their announcements started in Nov of 2011 with the C300, then at NAB they unveiled the C500 and the 1DC with a huge press conference (neither of which were available for months). And then well after NAB 2012 they announced the C100 (just rougly 7 months ago).

They caught a lot of flack from buyers and potential customers for releasing too many cameras too quickly and too close to eachother in feature set.
I can only imagine the reaction they would have gotten if they'd added yet ANOTHER camera to the Cinema EOS line at NAB this year.

On top of which - I don't really see what they're lacking (except perhaps a camera that will do 4K onboard).
That could have been interesting to see.
 
dustylense said:
The Canon 1dc does 4k on board.
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True, I can't believe I forgot that (and we used one on a project earlier this year).
Actually, I can believe I forgot it... MJPG 4K... the 1DC is definitely the odd man out of the bunch.

I guess I was thinking 4K raw... like the output of the C500 gives you.
I always forget the 1DC is a 4K camera.

:)
 
dustylense said:
So are they to just announce more cameras because some other company does? 4 cameras last year in the C line. All very nice cameras.
Dude, Canon announces cameras on their own dates. Nearly everyone knows that. Obviously Canon isn't at NAB looking for Diamond awards like some companies.

About price. Sure, Canon could think about reducing their prices (WHICH THEY HAVE) but I bet you everyone that shoots with a C300 or C100 will tell you that after a week of shooting with the camera they don't regret the purchase one bit. I'm a guy that sold my BMC and bought a C100 because I rented a C300 and loved it. If the BMC4k proves to have a nice image I will possibly buy that too. But it won't be because of it's price. It will be because of it's performance.

Canon reduced the C100's price 3 weeks after I bought it. Am I mad? No. I just had bad luck in timing. The camera has already paid itself off. It's a total joy to work with. Expensive? Maybe for some. Worth it? For me, every penny. Now if it were just not as hard to rent a C300. Man, they are always out. I wonder why????

I think they were a no show to you. And you're trolling.
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I rented a C300 and regretted it. The ability to grade footage was almost nonexistent. Those darks have nothing under the hood. Raise them even a hair and you land in mush. For people doing low-end ungraded work I can see the appeal, otherwise there is little to none.
 
zijital said:
XA-25 has got to be exciting for anyone who wants a babycam w/ HD-SDI.

I know there were a lot of rumors going around about a C200 or C50, but I think it would've been out of character for Canon to announce something like that at NAB. It would've been cool, but I wasn't going to bet it would happen.

When I think of Canon's release schedule think of these two things:

XF300 & C300

1. The XF300, in my opinion, is the response to the HVX200. Small, tapeless camera. XF300 wasn't released until 2010, half a decade after the HVX200, three years after the EX1. And both of those cameras were refreshed before the XF300 came out (HVX200a & EX1r).

2. The C300 was released after the Panasonic AF100 & Sony FS100. Canon took its sweet time getting the camera to the market. To design the C300 from the ground up in under 3 years after the 5Dii was released says Canon took it seriously & didn't wait too long. But I did read a quote that they made it in "two years," which implies that they still sat on their hands for a year after the 5Dii shook up the video world before thinking that they should do something about it.

If Canon was a company to rush into the newest fad as quickly as possible, we would've seen a mock up 5Dii w/ XLRs at NAB 2009, just 6 months after the 5Dii was released.

I personally feel like we probably won't see anything new from Canon on the cinema line for a year, but probably another two. Though it is a safe bet to think a 7Dii will be announced at anytime, but probably nothing else that would set DVXUsers fire.
Click to expand...

Off topic a bit, but talking about the XF300 & C300. Both of those cameras were met with some derision when they were released (at least on forums like this they were):

1)The XF300 had a sensor that was too small (should have been a 2/3 sensor)? What were they thinking?!
2) The C300 is way overpriced, 8-Bit, and lacks 4K? What were they thinking?

I do a lot of fixing work for foreign crews; and I have to say that over the last year the C300 has been the camera of choice with maybe 60% of the crews. The XF300 has also been there as a B camera with the C300, and seems to be the camera of choice for news style documentaries with certain crews.

Talking to the cameramen; they seem to love them both, and they specifically recommend the C300 to the producers (unless they are with a director that specifically wants a RED or whatever) when they are working abroad because of the cameras simplicity and reliability. Every C300 I have seen has been an EF mount with stock canon zoom lenses. Nothing fancy at all.

It just seems funny that both of these camera were so unpopular with the indie crowd, but seem to be increasingly the 1st choice of camera with many TV crews and documentary crews. Canon seems to know who their customers are, and while some of their decisions might seem odd at first, there is definitely a plan in place.

NAB is not part of that plan and never has been I guess.
 
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I also think Canon was a no-show, in the sense that they generated no news during NAB. If they had a huge stand there, it was basically for crying "hey we're still here, look at us". But BlackMagic stole their show (with two cameras that are still not finished, and after doing the same a year earlier with a camera that is just only becoming available).

edit: except for what ^ said: the C300 is a fine camera (just overpriced) and many pros love it for its ease of use
 
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