can you help me complete my gear?

M

milleto

Well-known member
Hello.

I live in NYC but I'm moving to South America. I want to get into Wedding video Business. I have some experience videotaping live performances doing simple edits and learning to use the gear I own but I know I have a lot to learn and hope to find time for that.

I have...

Pana DVX100A ....... bought it 10/2004 about 250 hrs, well take care off
AT 897 shotgun.....
Sachtler DV6 tripod...
1 Lithium_ion...5hrs

PM G5 2.0 GHZ dual core....bought it 10/2005
Final Cut Studio 5

That's about it. I know that there's so much I need and don't have but taking that I have about $5000 to $6000 to expend for now..... what will you do in my case? What to get first? how will you invest your money?

Things are so expensive that it takes a while to recover and when you do I start to feel that my gear is getting old, then I freak out thinking they might break soon. you know what I mean? I hope I can do well with weddings and be able to keep up with gear updates.

Please any info or guide you are willing to spare will be of great help. I hope one day I can give back to others.

Peace and have a good day out there.

Milleto
 
The #1 most important thing in a wedding video is sound. Even if you cant get a camera up near the altar, you need to get a mic.

A sennheiser g2 wireless setup could serve you well. They work reasonably well in cities, and amazingly well in less developed areas. (less interference) I'd recommend the kit that also has a xlr butt plug and a mic like a re50. Have an assistant or friend of the party go around asking people for candid comments, poking the mic into their faces. Everyone puts priority on a "beautiful" video, but the ones that leave the client happiest are the ones with humor and laughter mixed in. It might seem inappropriate for the drunk ex boyfriend to be saying "that should have been me", but those are the memories people WANT and will laugh at in years to come.

A cheap but good option for audio (in addition to the wireless and camera mics) would be to buy a portable 2 track audio recorder to either mount on the groom or tape to the pulpit. Something like a roland r-09 or zoom h2 (which is really cheap). A lavalier mic that connects to one of those would be even better, as it can poke out and get good audio of the vows. You can spend a fortune getting the cleanest sound, but whatever you do, at a bare minimum you need to be able to hear what is being said. A cheap recorder and simple lavalier can go a long way towards that goal. If you have the budget, buy a couple both as backups and as plant mics for when you run out of other options. (stick on in the centerpiece of the wedding table at the reception to help record the toasts, etc)

Use your hvx for pre-show and reception shots, but for the ceremony itself? DV cameras are so cheap, you could get 3 or 4 for under $500 and use some clamp mounts or mini tripod mounts to hide them around the stage for cutaways. Even though the image quality wont match, having good audio plus multiple angles makes for a watcheable video. If you are clever, you can clamp cameras around the place and use a remote to start them recording right before the service. (look for one with a visible record light on the front)

Is south america ntsc or pal? make sure your dvx matches, or at least matches the other cameras if you buy them.

Forget cranes and jibs and anything complicated. In fact, your tripod might be a nuisance outside of the ceremony itself. A good monopod can go a long way for charging around trying to get the rice toss shots. You can get a quick release plate for your tripod and for the monopod and switch from the sticks to the pod in a flash.

weddings are like super high intensity documentaries of hostile subjects with the worst possible funding and bitchiest clients. You need to do whatever you can to prep in advance (do interviews with the family/wedding party in advance... mount cameras in advance, hid mics...) as well as make your gear as flexible and lightweight as possible. No matter how prepared, you'll have to hustle and bust your ass. If you do everything right, you'll still have to fight to get paid and if you screw up anything and miss any shot (and ALL arbitrary shots are considered critical by the mother of the bride), then you'll get threatened, insulted and likely ripped off. The goal is to miss as little as possible (you WILL miss something) and have enough other interesting things to look at that nobody will think to notice.

hope that helps.

Oh, the best piece of advise i can give? Dont do weddings. Find better work... like probing for land mines or cleaning the bathroom at a porn shop.

cheers,
-f
 
That was one of the best rants on wedding videos I have ever seen...mostly because you gave a lot of good advice. Weddings are a ***** to do, simply because there's always something you miss. Every wedding is different, so you have to take into consideration that even if you do five weddings perfectly, you can't afford to get cocky as it could be that sixth wedding that goes south (no pun intended). Good luck!

-Kegan
 
Floop, thanks so much. It helps a lot. You also scared the sh#@ out of me. But I'm too deep in already.LOL.

I'm getting the G2 wireless set up first. Don'r know much about wireless but will know more once it is in my hands. One thing is not clear yet...do you connet the G2 to the camera or to a separate device like the ones to suggested? Do you mean I should get the g2 and the roland r-09 or one or the other?

I'll get the g2...hope oneset is enough because they are pretty expensive.

I think I'll also get a firestore FS-4..what do you think? It'll go tapeless...amazing. I guess it means I don't wear the heads of my camera...and if this is true..looks like the camera will have a long life. I'm I right? besides other convinience I know.

I Only have 1 DVX100a...my next question is a) to get a second DVX b) to get a HVX.

I know from reading posts about this that people have different opinions and is a controversial subject. Of course de HVX will be nice but...is it necessary?
...South america is NTSC.


Anyhow.
Thanks so much..best to you.

I'll be doing my firt wedding in April..it is for a friend of mine...the best way to practice...he wont mind...and I'm not charging..

Peace

Osmany
 
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I have some insight to offer on a couple of the subjects you touched on here milleto.

Not too sure about the wireless setup, so I'll leave that to somebody more versed in that to speak about it. As for the firestore, take a look around the forum. I believe the title of the thread was "problem with firestore".

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=124569&highlight=problem+firestore

I searched it and found it for you. Although its for the Canon firestore, it goes to show that tapeless does have its errors. Most people who shoot with a firestore, do so to avoid capturing times. They can just plug it into their computers and edit right off it. If you do shoot with a firestore, shoot to tape as well - I know this defeats the purpose of saving the tape heads and to be honest, if you want a tapeless workflow...I'd go with an HVX.

Onto that topic itself - the HVX is less sensitive in low light conditions. Weddings are usually very low light and that can be a hinderance. HD overall is less sensitive, but I know a videographer here in Toronto that only shoots high end weddings on the Canon XH-A1. It just goes to show that it really depends on how well you can handle the environment.

My advice would be to keep your DVX and shoot on tape until you get comfortable shooting weddings. If at that point you think you can handle getting around the low-light problem with shooting HD, go for the HVX and a tapeless workflow. Considering your first wedding isn't until April, you may want to wait on purchasing these items. You never know how things may drop in cost.

I have a Canon XH-A1, but shot my previous weddings with my DVX. I'll be shooting a couple weddings in HD and I'll let you know how it goes and the turnout in low-light.

One thing that you might consider, is an on-camera light for the reception. Typically these are very dim and can cause noise. Get an on-camera light that's dimmable so that you don't disturb the people. I shot a reception once where the light only had an on/off switch and people were blinded and annoyed. Never again.

Hopefully this helps,

Kegan
 
Thanks Kegan.

I saw that thread with the firestore problem but so far I think is the only one I'v seen. I'll reply to that guy to find out if he had any more problems than the one he put up and also will try asking around to hear from other people experience. Have you use the DVX with FS-4? why do you recommend to us firestore with HVX and not with DVX? do you mind explaining.

I was very excited about this FS-4. Not only for the capturing time but mainly for the prolonging the life of the camera by saving the heads but now I see I have to do a bit more research. LOL... well, my thinking now is this.... even with tapes you can get artifacts now and then, right? so, if the FS-4 has one once in a while it might still be worthy, dont you think? I could do tape and FS-2 in most important moments and safe the heads for the rest of the time. I could shoot as much as I want without worrying about head wear....I get paranoic.LOL

Thanks for your imput on HD...very smart.

Hey Kegan...do you still do Weddings? How long have you been doing it? do you do other things?

Just wondering. I belive weddings can be a great way to get a lot of experience and make some money...maybe later will like to try other things.

Cheers.

best to all of you.
Osmany
 
Hey Osmany,

I do weddings occasionally. Keep in mind, I don't have the most experience with weddings as I've only done about six of them. I should be doing a couple more this year, but only for extra cash. It's not a very enjoyable field, but it does make money.

I also do corporate videos, instructional videos, but for this year I'll be focusing on documentaries and short films. I do a wide range of video production, but started out in short films, then progressed to dance recitals and from there got into weddings. Of course, trying other things is a great idea as well and if you can get a hold of another job, that you think you can handle...go for it!

It really does build your experience and you may find you like it better than others. I've had fairly decent experiences with weddings so far, but I can see how things can go wrong.

As for the firestore, I think that's the only problem I've seen as well..but there may be others that talk about it extensively. I was going to purchase a firestore as well for my A1, for the same reasons as you and the easier workflow but a lot of the things I shoot would be hard to re-shoot and I need to make sure I get it right. In regards to tapes getting artifacts, you're right but since I've used high quality tapes, I haven't gotten any dropouts or any significant artifacts in my footage.

Of course head wear would get anyone paranoid, but you've used about 250 hours on the heads already. Its recommended to last approx. 1000 hours. That's from the DVX manual anyway and considering that, you would have at least 750 hours to go. That's just what the approximated time is though.

Keep us posted on your decisions,

Kegan
 
milleto said:
I Only have 1 DVX100a...my next question is a) to get a second DVX b) to get a HVX.
Click to expand...

I would suggest picking up a second DVX. Even if you dont have someone to operate it just having a saftey camera running on a tripod to cut with your footage can be a lifesaver.
 
Can't believe I forgot to mention that! Good advice Matthew. A safety camera is an incredibly handy thing to have. I'd have a student or something operating it, just to be safe though. I wouldn't want to leave such an expensive piece of equipment on a tripod, somebody could knock over or something.

It's usually good to have a second operator, pan for audience reaction and maybe be close enough to get a zoom in on the kiss. Depends on how the wedding is setup of course.

-Kegan
 
milleto said:
Floop, thanks so much. It helps a lot. You also scared the sh#@ out of me. But I'm too deep in already.LOL.

I'm getting the G2 wireless set up first. Don'r know much about wireless but will know more once it is in my hands. One thing is not clear yet...do you connet the G2 to the camera or to a separate device like the ones to suggested? Do you mean I should get the g2 and the roland r-09 or one or the other?
Click to expand...

The kit i recommend has the mnfg ID EW100ENGG2 . It comes with a portable transmitter, a lavalier that connects to the transmitter, a receiver that connects to the hot shoe of your camera and a second transmitter that can plug into a dynamic mic like the re50 or sm57. Easiest way to switch transmitters is to have them on 2 different frequencies and just flick between them on your receiver unit. Be sure to check the sennheiser website to see what frequencies are free wherever you are moving. Some frequences cross over to tv broadcast frequencies so you'll want to be sure to get the right frequency block for where you are moving.

You can connect the g2 to the camera or to the pocket recorder. This is where the word "kit" starts to become relevant. No two events will be the same and you need to have gear that can adapt.

I think I'll also get a firestore FS-4..what do you think? It'll go tapeless...amazing. I guess it means I don't wear the heads of my camera...and if this is true..looks like the camera will have a long life. I'm I right? besides other convinience I know.
Click to expand...
Well. My opinion is that for weddings a firestore is a mediocre idea except as a redundant backup. I dont care how reliable they are, i dont want to have to archive footage. I mean, you might save a little bit of tape swap and head time, but you'll make your cleanup after you are done editing a big nightmare. (never ever ever throw away the source tapes for a wedding. The minute you do, great aunt berty dies and the client wants that footage she saw you shoot of bertie making out with cousin mert in the coat closet. To say "oh, i had a fancy digital recorder and it was cool but i didnt feel like burning 15 backup dvds so instead of a $4 tape, i threw away your footage" makes you look bad.)

I Only have 1 DVX100a...my next question is a) to get a second DVX b) to get a HVX.
Click to expand...
MY opinion? no. have one fancy camera. cameras depreciate enough as it is. you dont want two of those leeches sucking your net worth dry. My advise was multiple cheap cameras. You can buy a minidv (tape, not hd) camera from a big box store in new york for $159. That 159 bucks buys you a battery powered portable recorder with built in microphones. Even if you just buy the camcorder and shove it in a plant to get some audio, its worth it. Yeah, it wont sound as good as an H2, but it also records video, which is pretty crazy for the price. Oh, and if you do capture with tape, you can use one of your cheap camcorders to play back when capturing into your computer, saving all that head wear on your dvx... and if you buy a $250 camera with analog i/o, you can use it hooked to your computer as a tv media converter while editing. Very handy.

I know its a weird solution, but the dvx shines as an indy film tool. Weddings are not indy films. After you edit your first wedding you'll understand. My "clamp a cheapass camcorder near the pulpit" advice will make much more sense once you find a hole in your coverage of the ceremony. Some drunk pregnant bridesmaid trips over your tripod while running to puke in the holy water and you'll be looking around to see if the church has security cameras you might be able to use footage from.

Having one key setup is nice and all, but not so practical in the real world. You need to have enough tools to be able to improvise. If you only have one camera and one mic, you can guarantee some freako "shelly decided to give her vows from the organ platform in the balcony" event is going to take place. Unless you have something you can shove up there to capture her audio you are doomed.

More random thoughts... if you have a junk cam (and under $300 qualifies), then you can hand a camcorder to a bridesmaid and ask her to go shoot some behind the scenes footage of the bride having her makeup or whatever put on. Or you can hand it to some teenager and have him go pester grampa for a quote. They sorta act like those disposable film cameras at weddings. They wont produce the prettiest picture, but they'll often result in the funniest video. for a good video you want both pretty and funny.

Now, please understand, I'm only making these cheapass stopgap suggestions because you are shooting weddings. I would never consider a consumer camera (other than, say, an hv20) to be acceptable as a second camera. Its only because weddings have such absurd restrictions that all normal rules are off. The bride wants total coverage of every minute of the ceremony, but wont let you within 100 yards of the stage. You have to be omnipresent but invisible. You are supposed to record every last utterance of the wedding couple, the minister and on top of that get a studio quality recording of a harp interlude that lasts so long that one of the bridesmaids passes out and the entirety of the audience needs to pee.

I think I'd rather shoot in a warzone. The rules of engagement are similar, except in a warzone, you dont have to capture and edit the reading of a 9 page poem in rhyming couplets.

The other posters here have great points about lights and such. All the little bits and bobs add up really quickly, so rather than blowing your full 5k budget on a new high def camera, you could easily run up 3-4k (or way more) on camera lights, mounts, clamps and microphones. The good news is that grip and audio gear, (make that QUALITY grip and light gear) holds its value and will still be useful for many years after the dvx and hvx are relegated to the realm of the pxl-2000. (sort of a a vhs valhalla. hehe).

So yeah. Buy the senny g2 kit. Very useful. 2 can come in handy, but might just offer too much confusion for a wedding. I vote for at least one cheapass dv camera, preferably 3 or 4. (they are so cheap!)... springing a bit more for one with a mic input and analog i/o would be worthwhile too. I also vote for an r-09 or zoom h2 to stick in the kit. The r-09 is twice the price, but has a decent preamp. However, if you plan on using the built in mic, go for the zoom. Sounds amazingly good for the money. Buy a monopod. They are cheap and in a pinch can be used to rig with. If you get a cheap-cam, buy a variety of rigging gear. They make cool clamps with ball heads on them. very useful.

Some (smart) wedding parties have photo shoots days before the wedding. If you are lucky enough to land one of these weddings, this is the time to shine. Use all your dvx tricks to make just amazing footage of the bride and bridesmaids. Jibs, dollies, whatever you got. Often times you wont be able to have time without the photographer, but photographers are such an intrinsic part of weddings now that having "pre-show" footage of the actual photo shoot works really well.

Remember, you can never shoot too much b-roll, too many angles or have too clear of audio. You can edit too much b-roll or angles in, but you can never shoot too much. Build tape charges into the deal and shoot like its going out of style.

Oh, and if you ever get offered a high end wedding in dallas, ask them if they are using Dallas Affairs for the cake. If they are, take the gig. I dont know what kind of phermone laced crack they use, but its cake like no other. I've gone to weddings of people i didnt even like because of that cake. I'd crawl through broken glass... no wait, even worse, i'd crawl through the bottom of the ball pit at chuck e cheeses to get some of that cake.

Its that good. Really.

hope something there proves useful.

cheers!
-f
 
Hey floop.

That was very funny and super useful. Hope it helps others as much as it does to me. Its good to have somebody bring your feet to the ground..I like it. Do you still do Weddings?

A few comments on your post.

The way you talk it sounds like you were covering this weddings by yourself, is that right? Something like you in a good camera and 3-4 cheaps on clamps.

I do owned a couple of $250 panasonic cameras, that I use for capturing and rewinding. But I thought the quality difference to the DVX will be a problem when being edit next to each other.
Wouldn't look bad to go from dvx to cheap cam shot?
will the quality of the work be affected by this?
Do you think is not necesary to have at least 2 good cameras as minimum for good quality?

I do understand and wouldn't mind saving some $$$$ for other equipment. What do you say?

Ok. as for the firestore.

I understand your point. I see it this way:

1- I never use my dvx besides work because I worry about damaging the heads. Having the firestore I could shoot anything I want, take it anywhere I want and make a lots of cool, fun footage. That way I can get better and have some material for myself. Right now, the camera sits and waits for the next job. Head Paranoia.

2- In weddings...for most important moments I would do tape and firestore...but for other non threatening moments I could only use the firestore and save heads. Later when I'm done editing I can still make a backup to minidv of my firestore (using the cheap camera) or even have HDs for that..they are getting bigger and cheaper.

What do you think?
Am I to crazy worrying too much about the camera's head?
I figure the longer I could keep the camera working the better it is. More action=more profit and more experience.

I'm getting the G2, mics and clamps and mounts you suggested. The light I think the varizoom LED but I have to do a bit more research there.

In the future I will like to shoot music videos or documentaries and stuff like that but I figure weddings will be a great experience for me.

Well, I read your post 3 or 4 times and learned so much from it. very thankful. thanks for your time. hope to share more later.

Ok, best to all.

Osmany
 
milleto said:
Hey floop.

That was very funny and super useful. Hope it helps others as much as it does to me. Its good to have somebody bring your feet to the ground..I like it. Do you still do Weddings?
Click to expand...

Heh. i'm glad i entertained. I cant talk about weddings without cynicism or i go mad.

I only do weddings for free now. Friends, family, friends of family. If you do it for free, then you can be much more creative and nobody has the room to say anything. Now, i know that makes a terrible business model, so i dont recommend it, but it might help see where i'm coming from. Actually, i wont go to a wedding w/o a camera. Weddings are far more fun to shoot (for free, so with no expectations) than to attend as a guest.

The way you talk it sounds like you were covering this weddings by yourself, is that right? Something like you in a good camera and 3-4 cheaps on clamps.
Click to expand...
I have, sure. Pay is so terrible on weddings, that even dragging along that stoner neighbor kid can blow your budget. I think planning for having no help is a safer thing to do than hope you'll find somebody cheap with a brain.

I do owned a couple of $250 panasonic cameras, that I use for capturing and rewinding. But I thought the quality difference to the DVX will be a problem when being edit next to each other.
Wouldn't look bad to go from dvx to cheap cam shot?
will the quality of the work be affected by this?
Do you think is not necesary to have at least 2 good cameras as minimum for good quality?
Click to expand...
See... of course the quality difference will be huge. Night and day. You clamp cameras hoping to hell you never use them. But if you need them, a color and clarity shift is WAY better than having to use the angle where some brat reached over and moved your head and you didnt notice until you'd missed the vows.

Remember, wedding videos are like 90% post. You just need meat to feed your post machine. Lets say you screw up and need to cut to a second camera and it looks bad. Well, first of all, it probably wont. No video looks good in low light churches. But lets say it looks too grainy (an often occurance). Shrink it down 20%, maybe put some masturbatory filters on it and slap that with a soft mask/frame onto some cliche stock footage of satin. (not satan... although by the time you get to post, you'll want that.) It will look hokey as hell... but thats basically the point of weddings. As long as it looks intentional, it will work. Or for that matter, shrink it down and ghost over it some pictures of the couple before they got fat and oily. You can get away with all sorts of creative post work... so long as for the most part the story of the ceremony keeps plodding along. And sadly, the more gratuitous effects you use, the happier most couples will be.

Another point to consider... if you have a second/third camera, then you know for a fact you have cover. If/when something happens and you need to move, normally you'd freak out, sweat for a bit, wait for a break in the speeches and meanwhile you have a long segment with somebody's butt blocking the shot. If you know for a fact you have a cover, the second you get blocked, you move, cause you know you have a cutaway. In fact, you can move just to be creative.... just plan for the satin shot to bridge.

What do you think?
Am I to crazy worrying too much about the camera's head?
I figure the longer I could keep the camera working the better it is. More action=more profit and more experience.
Click to expand...
Well. Its your camera, so you need to do what makes you feel comfortable. In my opinion...

1. you'll likely upgrade to a HD camera before the heads on the dvx wear out.
2. lets say the heads wear out. How much is a new set of heads?
3. lets say you go shoot now all willy nilly and the heads wear out in what, 6 months... a year? In the event that happens and you dont want to repair the heads, you could buy the firestore at that point in the future. Your camera will regain the functionality you are preemptively wanting to buy now... but in 6 months/a year, you will probably be able to get a significantly fancier, larger firestore for the same price as a smaller SD only one now. I mean, if you "save the heads" for later... are you really going to use them up before the camera gets tossed?

i dunno. tough call. i can see why you'd want to save the tape heads for redundant shooting, i suppose. I'd be more inclined to take the firestore money, put it in savings and leave it as your "upgrade your heads/firestore and/or hvx" fund.

hehe. i suppose you could attach one of your cheapy cameras to the shoe of your dvx and use it as a firestore now. Thats even cheaper.


In the future I will like to shoot music videos or documentaries and stuff like that but I figure weddings will be a great experience for me.

Well, I read your post 3 or 4 times and learned so much from it. very thankful. thanks for your time. hope to share more later.
Click to expand...
Hey, experience is experience. You can learn all sorts of amazing things in the heat of a battle. I'm too old for the foxholes now, but if you think you have the mustard, then by all means jump into the firefight. My only real suggestion is that you arm yourself with a diversity of tools. Shooting weddings seems like it would be sniper work, but in reality its more like hand to hand combat using shivs made out of spoons sharpened on the concrete chapel floor. hehe.

Glad to hear my morbid cynicism has proven useful to ya.

Here's a great bit of advise my mentor gave me... shoot like an editor. (no, not drunk!)

In addition to making sequences as you shoot, every time you touch the camera, you should have an idea of what the viewer would be seeing at that moment. Ideally, its whats coming from your camera. If it cant be, you need to think what else can work there. As an editor, you want as many choices as possible. Be kind to your editor (since its probably yourself) and give him the options he craves.

Everybody should be kind to their inner editor.

cheers!
 
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