Can the H4N be used as a "shotgun mic" replacement?

B

BuckVade

Member
Hi everyone,
I’m new to this forum so I’m hoping I post my cry for help correctly. I own the Canon XH a1s and need the right sound for my filming purposes. I planed to buy a Shotgun but was advised to purchase the Zoom H4N instead. So I did, I even purchased a “boom” with the right attachment to connect the H4N to it.
Now I come across a few questions:
Do I still need a Shotgun mic?
If yes do I connect it to the H4N or to my Camera?
If not , Should I connect the H4N to my Camera’s XLR input or sync later?
What are the pro and conts in using either of them or both of them

Thanks for your help, please welcome a new “DVXuser.com family-member”:laugh:
 
The H4N has a stereo mic. A shotgun mic will give you much more directional pickup, and placing a shotgun on a boom with a boom operator will give you the best sound. Placing the H4N on a boom is not a good idea. Speech is also not recorded in stereo usually (if ever.) Recording to the A1S is probably the easiest option. Recording to the H4N would really just be a pain to sync later, so I think the costs outweigh the benefits.
 
Thanks edinc90,
sorry my ignorance but sound is really foreign to me. Are you telling me that nothing should be recorded in stereo during shoot? What is the alternative and how do they record? Furthermore any suggestion what the H4N is good for to use (aside interview)?
 
Dialogue is usually recorded in mono. All the rest of the sounds can be recorded however you want. The reason for recording dialogue in mono is because it's coming from a single point. If you want to pan the audio right or left, then do it in post to match where the speaker is on the screen. That position might change depending on which angle you use if you're doing a cross-shoot.

The stereo mic on the H4N is also cardioid, which means not as directional as a shotgun, which is what you want for recording dialogue. You want to capture the dialogue as clean as you can. This means that you don't want any other sounds recorded along with your dialogue. If you want sounds of cars and stuff in the background, then add those later (and then you can use your H4N to record it.)

You can absolutely use the H4N as an external recorder and plug your mic into it, but I really see no reason to, since you camera has XLR inputs and decent preamps. You won't be able to tell the difference between the camera's preamps and an external recorder's preamps until you spend a few thousand dollars on a recorder (i.e. not the H4N.)
 
Dialogue. Always record in mono. Use a Shotgun for outdoor scenes (Rode NTG-3 or NTG-2) and use a hypercardioid for indoor scenes (AT4053b). Use the search engine or read the stickies about the proper use of mics and what mic should be used inside or outside.

THe mics on the H4n aren't so great anyway. If you want to get some natural sounds like traffic, or birds, or a crowd try the H4n. But don't ever put the H4n on the end of a boom pole. How would you read the levels?
 
I should have had informed myself more before I went to Sammy's, I was more or less talked into buying the H4N as a mic replacement and sound devise.
 
Don't be discouraged, the H4n has a definite place in the small indy's bag. You can use it for all kinds of room tone, general background, Foley work and building up your sound effects arsenal, in short, just about everything BUT dialogue - and you can record that too - all alone by itself - in mono - with a separate mic.

For a newbie, the Sound for Film and Television CD offered on the site is a great
 starting point. The yellow stickies at the top of the audio forum are also a great beginning.

Welcome to the forum.
 
Chadfish said:
Dialogue. Always record in mono. Use a Shotgun for outdoor scenes (Rode NTG-3 or NTG-2) and use a hypercardioid for indoor scenes (AT4053b). Use the search engine or read the stickies about the proper use of mics and what mic should be used inside or outside.

THe mics on the H4n aren't so great anyway. If you want to get some natural sounds like traffic, or birds, or a crowd try the H4n. But don't ever put the H4n on the end of a boom pole. How would you read the levels?
Click to expand...

All too true. Here is how I use the H4N for recording... with an MKH418 plugged in!
http://gearninja.com/Images/ZoomH4N_scrn.jpg
Indoors, a HyperCardioid mic will be much better at rejecting side and rear noise.
I have also used the H4N very effectively as a narration mic, by placing it inside a PortaBooth. Indeed, my shotguns kinda lack depth used for VO.

THOUGHT. Has anyone tried dropping the H4N into an insulated tube, about 12" long to see if it doesn't change it's directionality?
 
Zephyrnoid said:
THOUGHT. Has anyone tried dropping the H4N into an insulated tube, about 12" long to see if it doesn't change it's directionality?
Click to expand...

You're still dealing with a stereo mic. A tube won't help, but actually make a stereo mic sound worse. Dialogue really needs a mono mic. A tube will make it sound like, well, a tube. Maybe if you put slits in the tube and a mono mic, you could be making a giant shotgun! Or you could just buy the right tool. You can't add stuff to the wrong mic to make it better.

The H4N is best used as a recorder, not a mic. The mics are low-end at best, and again stereo is wrong for dialogue.
 
Well, you could place the recorder so one of the mic capsules faces the person speaking and then only use the track from that side. You'll have to get the recorder pretty close to the person though if it's a cardioid pattern and I'm not familiar with the Zoom to comment on the quality of the microphones.

I've done this with a Rode NT-4 stereo mic and got pretty decent results. I've yet to pick up a hyper for dialog and the NT-4 gave me a better result than the shotgun I have in that situation.
 
Zephyrnoid said:
THOUGHT. Has anyone tried dropping the H4N into an insulated tube, about 12" long to see if it doesn't change it's directionality?
Click to expand...

That will sound just like you've stuck a stereo mic in a tube.

The slots you see on a shotgun mic are not decorative, they are an integral part of the design of the mic.

See this free book from Neumann. Shotguns are covered in section 6.8.
 
JordanBlock said:
That will sound just like you've stuck a stereo mic in a tube.

The slots you see on a shotgun mic are not decorative, they are an integral part of the design of the mic.

See this free book from Neumann. Shotguns are covered in section 6.8.
Click to expand...

I was half kidding you know. Then again, it should be tried before being dismissed:crybaby:
Thanks for the resource from Neumann
 
I was in your position 3 years ago. I wanted to improve my sound. Now I'm a sound man. You need to decide what it is you want to do. If you want to be a camera man, find an up and coming sound guy to work with. You can easily spend more money on sound gear than an XH-A1 costs.

The H4N isn't a replacement for a good shotgun mic, nor is it a replacement for a mixer. It's a recorder with stereo mics. Your investment may not have filled the direct need you had hoped but it will serve you over time. I've got a complete sound kit and I bought one because I wanted it when I travel to pick up sounds easily.

BTW, merging sound and video isn't as big a deal as people make it out to be. Get a cheap slate, make sure the camera can see it and the recorder picks it up and you can merge them pretty easily in post.
 
Thanks, I'm glad I joined this Forum, you guys are all greatly helpful.
I agree that hiring a sound man would be the ideal situation, but it wouldn't be an option for me right now, as I'm just shooting behind the scenes of my Photo-shoots, for now. The higher goal is to be a documentarian and for that you're often just on field and it'll be useful to know as much as possible about the importance of Sound. Just educating myself.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top