Can someone give a newbie intro to these gyro gimbal setups?

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fuzzybabybunny

Active member
I'm really confused on how they work and operate, or what parts are even required, and what is required of the operator.

1. Tell me if the following is correct:

So we've got 3 axis, XYZ. Pitch is rotation around X, Yaw or rotation around Y, and Roll is rotation around Z.

Roll causes the footage to look tilted to one side, so stabilizing the Z makes the footage look straight and not rolling from side to side.

Pitch causes the footage to look like it is either pointing up or down. Vertical lines in a scene will not be parallel anymore, and will seem to converge. Stabilizing on the X axis makes the footage look like it is pointed exactly straight forward.

Yaw basically makes the footage look like it is turning, like when you are turning your head. - I would think that for this Yaw / Y axis, you'd want to control it's rotation and also DAMPEN its movement / vibrations, right? As well as ramp up the movement so you have a steady acceleration versus an abrupt acceleration of the turn. On a steadicam, this is what the operator rotates the center post for.

2. Is it possible to operate these with a single operator, like a steadicam operator does by himself?

3. My main problem with steadicams is that it's hard to get steady roll and pitch. When you're moving, trying to have the roll and the pitch stay completely steady is super difficult. Changing the Yaw (rotating the center post) is easy enough for aiming, but doing so can often introduce unwanted pitch and roll. Ideally I would want a steadicam that is stabilized in the pitch and roll, but the yaw is free to be rotated via a center column with dampened movements. Does something like this exist?

4. It seems that there needs to be a separate remote control for these gimbals? And some of them use open source software or something? This is starting to sound like a pretty technical engineering / tinkerer undertaking...
 
You've hit on the points that make the gimbals not as simple/practical as one might imagine.

A 3 axis gimbal requires a remote control. After all, it simply won't change direction in any axis without an outside control. Can a single person do this? No, not well. I think a 3 axis gimbal requires two operators.

Some of the footage shown on the forum is from 2 axis gimbals that are operated by one person. The 2 axis gimbal has no stabilization for panning (Z?). The problem with this is that the operator can only control pan. Tilt is stabilized and cant be changed. The operator has to raise or lower the camera to adjust the frame in the vertical direction.

The other issue with the gimbals is that they don't stabilize up and down. The operator has to manually be as smooth as possible in the vertical axis.
 
Paul F said:
You've hit on the points that make the gimbals not as simple/practical as one might imagine.

A 3 axis gimbal requires a remote control. After all, it simply won't change direction in any axis without an outside control. Can a single person do this? No, not well. I think a 3 axis gimbal requires two operators.

Some of the footage shown on the forum is from 2 axis gimbals that are operated by one person. The 2 axis gimbal has no stabilization for panning (Z?). The problem with this is that the operator can only control pan. Tilt is stabilized and cant be changed. The operator has to raise or lower the camera to adjust the frame in the vertical direction.

The other issue with the gimbals is that they don't stabilize up and down. The operator has to manually be as smooth as possible in the vertical axis.
Click to expand...

Wait, so let me get this straight.

The problem with steadicams is it is hard to get 100% steady on the pitch and roll axis.

The yaw is fine because it simply pans on a near frictionless ball bearing system which the user controls by rotating the center column. The vertical displacement of footsteps is eliminated by a good iso-elastic arm.

On an electronic gyro system, the pitch and roll are perfectly controlled and stabilized, but the yaw is a problem in terms of control and the vertical displacement can't be controlled.

So it seems like the weaknesses of each system are the strengths of the other.

Isn't there a two axis gyro stabilizer mounted on top of a Steadicam and isoelastic arm? Wouldn't that solve everything? Roll and pitch are stabilized with the gyros, yaw is controlled by the steadicam and the operator turning the center column, and the vertical displacement is eliminated with the arm.
 
Yes, the idea of combining the two has advantages. But the disadvantage is that for a given camera size, the weight becomes just that much heavier (motors, bearings, more battery, controller) and more difficult to control. Joystick control while walking or running is a challenge.
 
Huh? Say you have the super lightweight GH3. It can easily be controlled by most gyro stabilizers. So just pop that entire thing on a Steadicam. The GH3 is held in place on the gyros, getting its roll and pitch stabilized. Meanwhile the gyro+GH3 combo is attached to the top of the top of the steadicam getting its yaw under control and its footsteps absorbed. The Steadicam can tilt and roll (and it will with all that weight shifting around on top) but all of that will be stabilized from the camera's perspective.
 
There is a further cat in the chicken coop (for remote devices)..

When we walk forward we put one foot in front of the other.

When one foot is in front of the other our body is now turned

So a 2 axis wont be stable as it yaw-yaws as you walk forward - yep flat and with a good horizon but still a jinky image

(not to mention that the steadicam arm deals with XY and Z too - bobbing up and down for one)

Seems to me that these things are a the beginning of a long (and exciting) road that is far from practical for solo operation this month

S
 
fuzzybabybunny said:
Huh? Say you have the super lightweight GH3. It can easily be controlled by most gyro stabilizers. So just pop that entire thing on a Steadicam. The GH3 is held in place on the gyros, getting its roll and pitch stabilized.... .
Click to expand...

Agreed, but not everyone wants to use a GH3.
 
You don't necessarily need 2 operators. Most, if not all, of these setups employ active feedback such that it cancels out micro-movements but large intentional movements allow it to work. So if you intentionally pan left, it will pan left, and not try to correct your action.

Just hit up youtube and you will see a lot of these in action. "3 axis gimbal"
 
Interesting idea. Can you provide a link to an example? I looked at 20 videos under '3 axis gimbal' and I think I found one as you described. It looks to have only the pan axis with a dampened response. It is using a very wide lens. Granted, it is one operator, but the framing control is poor at best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzAL8ovAcXE
 
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Practice practice practice. Steadicam isn't a magical solution.

However, I see no reason, if you stick to small cameras, to mount a 2-axis gyro gimbal on top of a steadicam which will allow you to have level footage, although you will still induce a vertical and horizontal movement to the footage, in other words, the footage will be level (horizon), but the footage will have a sideways arc to it, almost like bobbing your head side to side. Considering the amount of practice to then eliminate that bobbing effect, you might as well just practice some more with the steadicam without the gyro gimbal to get it right.

These gyro gimbals are great tools for certain applications though. I'm looking at an application for a future project.
 
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