can an inexperienced director embarrass himself?

Well Landon says he disagrees with using storyboards, and he's quite correct.

Don't use a storyboard for a play, it serves absolutely no function in a play or stage performance.

In a film setting, use a storyboard, as Scott has explained, it's used for setting up shots, so everyone is clear on the production.

But Landon, you've got it wrong and far as this discussion is concerned.
 
Cheesesailor77 said:
thanks loki, if you don't mind, could you tell me a little about your auditioning process? how did you go about that? just walked up to ppl? where did you find your actors, how did you ask them to audition, etc?

how did you go about the first table read? was that the first time the actors had met? any more info on your rehearsals?
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For my auditions, I went to the website Mandy and posted a casting breakdown.

My producer and I also posted notices around the school we attend, as well as Ryerson University (they have an acting program... ryerson is a toronto school).

Once I started receiving emails of headshots/resumes I scheduled audition times 15min apart... and gave everyone directions to the audition.

I had all the head shots of the actors coming in printed up, and several copies of the sides, because as you'll find out, some actors don't even read the sides before coming in(even though you provide them), so it is good to have some handy.

I had my producer read lines with the people auditioning, and my First AD/Casting Assistant manned the crummy little sony handycam.

I had them read there lines once without me saying anything, then I would get them to read a second time with some direction, and see how they actually took what I was saying and applied it. I made everyone read twice, even if they blew me away.

For my audition I got lucky, two of the people I asked to come audition had worked together already so I let them audition together. They were eventually the ones I chose because of how well they worked together.

I also did an 'improv' audition where I would give the actor a scene, and "direct" them through it, seeing how well they reacted and how into it they were... it was very telling of the people that were just there to "get a part" vs the people there to actually be in a film..

The most tedious process was watching all the tapes afterwards... but all in all it was a really good experience..

my cold read was great... we really tore the characters apart.. and talked about what made them tick.. why I wrote certain parts the way I did.. I would say, be careful that your actors don't completely change your characters around on you.. stick to your guns..

Rehearsal was nothing to special.. we pretty much just rehearsed the blocking of important scenes... i didn't rehearse all the scenes.. I left some to the day.. for a little bit of spontaneity..

hope that helps..
 
I still dont agree, sorry... I guess it comes down to some directors love storyboards and some dont, I dont. I remember working on a small CATS production a few months back where the director wanted "Storyboards" and then more "Storyboards".... Well, All went fine and the storyboard turned out very stylish, however, when he got on set, all I heard from him was "Thats not right, thats not the way it was storyboarded". so 2 takes and 6 hours later, everyone is about feed up with his "Storyboards" and want to crack them over his head.

He could have set up the scenes 20x fast had he not had the storyboards in the first place. Thats what turned me against storyboards the most, although its not all..

Stage director or not, he's already been banned from another well known forum for delusions of grandeur and bold faced lies about his work experience... (not that I have an axe to grind, I'm just saying...)
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So, what does this have to do with my dislike of storyboards?
 
why the hell would you use storyboards in the first place for a f-ing stage production... am i missing something?

Storybaords are for composition.... you must have worked with one really big dumbass..

how the hell would you story board a live stage play exactly? Storyboards are not good blocking tools... rehearsals are for that.

Landon, it sounds like you hate storyboards because you have no clue what they are used for... Why you would hate them is beyond me since they are just another useful tool in filmmaking..

pookie nailed it in his message...
 
pookie said:
Landon, you have no clue what you're talking about.

Sorry.
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Maybe so, but I know what I seen, and I know what kind of trouble it cost the entire production. So rather I know what i'm talking about or not, I know what will work for me, and storyboards are not in that mix.

I just offered mt $0.02 on his question, that I dont like storyboards that much unless there is a real need for them. What makes me wrong and you right?

PS) I didn't use storyboards for any of my stage productions....
 
You're involved in stage productions Landon. I've already agreed that storyboards would be pointless in those productions.
But coming from a stage background, you can't compare your experiences with using storyboards for film.
Storyboards are not for actors. They exist in a film production to help visualize the shots needed prior to shooting, establishing angles etc. They cannot be applied to a stage production, to would be the equivilent of wearing ski's to a 100 yard dash.

In the stage world, storyboards are pointless.
In the film world storyboards are required.

You need to understand, film isn't stage.

btw, you said"PS) I didn't use storyboards for any of my stage productions....", my point exactly.
 
not to shove around landon anymore, but this other "director" he brings up, i still can't get over this guy coming in to do cats and bringing storyboards, wtf?! lol I wonder what kind of eyes he was getting.

Landon, are you implying that you know more than 1 stage director that uses storyboards? if so, wow. I would really love to see them if there was any way to post them here. :)
 
Storyboards are vital; even if they're lousy stick-figures, they're mandatory. If someone can't tell their movie in pictures, they're going to have a very, very, very hard time making a movie.

Movies are stories told in pictures -- they are a visual medium. Now I know I'll hear lots of complaints about that, but it's just the way it is. Yes audio is a part of it, but we already have an audio medium -- it's called radio. Yes acting is a huge part of it, but we already have an actor's medium -- it's called theater. Movies are about the images, about the composition and lighting and staging and art direction and everything that goes on with those images, and then finally about what happens in those compositions. They're called "moving pictures" for a reason.

A shot list is a sort of verbal description of what a storyboard would be showing if you actually had a storyboard. And with all pictures, "a picture is worth 1,000 words". If you can describe what a scene's supposed to be in words, you should be able to infinitely better describe it in a picture. The storyboards help you "watch" your film play out, and plan for coverage and angles, and as ScottDVX100 said, you distribute the storyboards to the department heads so they know what's being shot, not just this immediate shot but also throughout the day. Combined with a shot list that references those storyboards, they can be well ahead of the game in making sure that scenes are prepped, actors are in wardrobe, props and set dressings are on hand, etc.

Making a movie without 'em could maybe be done, but I sure wouldn't want to be part of it. Even on my little 30-second commercials I'll completely board 'em out, and I can't draw at all. I can't even draw a blank, and I couldn't draw blood if you gave me a hatchet. But you gotta 'board your shots...
 
Sounds like the stage director was trying to work out actual blocking with the storyboards which isn't the best way, especially for a play. Some stage directors make out flow plans showing where the characters are moving much like a football play. Only other thing for a stage production artwork would be basic scene/set design to work out overall concepts and layout. Important for the set designer and director but not for the actors.
 
I actually got away without doing storyboars for my recent short film... but then again, I was the writer/director/cameraman and editor... so I was head of all the departments that needed to know about what was being shot :thumbsup:
 
Werner Herzog never uses storyboards unless he has to for a special effects shot. He claims they're for the unimaginative. Hitchcock wouldn't leave home without them. Both are incredibly visual storytellers with great compositional skills.

I feel it comes down to the kind of pictures you want to make, how much confidence you have in your team and your ability to communicate with them as well as how much time you have. A lot of great films have been made utilizing a lot of different techniques. The fact is that the technical end is by far the easiest, and the art in filmmaking, elusive for even the best. You have to find what techniques work for you and which get in the way of your artistry. They just ain't the same for everyone.
 
For my current film, I had all of the shots mapped out in my head. I discussed what I wanted with the DP and I thought all was good :)

Then I story boarded the film and made some animatics to show the camera moves etc. and then met with the DP again. The DP was looking at it and saying "Ahhhh ok, THAT'S what you meant for that shot.".

I think the storyboards / animatics were key merely as a communications tool. When we got on set, things were very smooth since the DP had a very clear idea about what I wanted. Everytime the DP finished a setup and had me come over to check the shot, it was spot on.
 
I am very anti storyboard. While film making is a visual medium it is not drawn! It is filmed! If you have a vision and communicate that or simply do it, what is the point of a story board? Sure if you get some big gig directing a 50mil picture the studio is going to have them made anyway, but I wouldnt use them. Neither would a lot of big time directors. Check out Movie Makers Master Class by Laurent Tirard. It has interviews with some of the greats (Woody Allen, Almodovar, Burton, Coens, Cronenberg, Jean Pierre Jeunet, Lynch, Pollack, Scorsese, Sotone, John Woo and a few more) and you would be amazed by how many of them dont story board a thing. Some dream how its going to be, others just sit and visualize it. A lot walk onto set, walk around and then map out the scene. Thats the way i do it. I usually dream a few scenes, sit around and visualize the entire film then once I walk on set a lot of it changes, a lot of it stays the same. A few of the directors who did use storyboards said they throw them away once on set and never use them. I belive in being in the space and letting your gut guide you.
 
You have some valid points (well, maybe...)

DoubleIt said:
If you have a vision and communicate that or simply do it, what is the point of a story board?
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How is the director supposed to communicate his vision to his collaborators?
With his voice? With an email? Pictures are more efficient.
 
Yes, no one said you HAVE to story board, but the consensus is that its better for the production if you do.

Even those big directors you mentioned, just because they choose not to storyboard doesnt mean that they think storyboarding wouldn't make the process easier for all involved, its just not part of their artistic process.

They are also big enough names to do what they want, there is enough money to throw around if the shoot takes longer. If the studio knows that say, Woody Allen won't picks his shots until the first day on set, they can budget for 10 additional days (arbitrary number). 10 days that they wouldn't need if everything was boarded.

And also of the names you mentioned (Woody Allen, Almodovar, Burton, Coens, Cronenberg, Jean Pierre Jeunet, Lynch, Pollack, Scorsese, Sotone, John Woo) I know Burton, the Coens, Cronenberg, Jeunet, Lynch, Scorsese, and Woo all board their films. And as far as I know, others might also, I just can't say for sure.
 
Well, as a final thought.

When you're planning your "big break" project, and you're looking for funding.....

Walk into a meeting with possible investors without a storyboard, and describe your film to them, with your best "just trust me look".

I hear McDonalds is hiring right around the corner.
 
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