Camera or external recorder?

The Sound Room folk are in Northern NJ, (Mahwah) on the NYS border, 30 miles N/W from midtown NYC, about an hour, plus or minus, depending on traffic. I don't think they have a storefront but are very accommodating, so I'm sure you can work out something. Call or email them.
 
I agree with all the other guys that adding a mixer is a far better upgrade than trying to do sep recording.

I have the benefit of four audio channels on my camera so have a huge amount of flexibility so I can record a camera mic, a radio mic (radio boom?) and then use the other two channels to be fed from an ENG mixer to do whatever the job requires.

Personally I use these Twelco mixers which are really good value and offer a lot of facilities for the money, they do a four and six channel version and I have both in my store: http://www.twelco.hu/
 
I measured my XH-A1 audio side fed with SD302 field mixer, and the dynamic range was over 90 db. Using a cheap recorder is not going to make it any better, 24 bit sample depth is mostly an illusion with them, as the analog electronics and converters are too noisy. I just drop in to say that I fully agree with the first replies, using a nice mixer like SD302 with great meters, limiters, preamplifiers and ergonomics is a much better investment than so-so recorder with the complications with post it brings with it. Even after getting a decent recorder the same mixer is still useful: I have both SD302 mixer and SD722 recorder, and when using the SD722 (only with DSLRs) it sits in the bag with SD302. When shooting with XH-A1 and now XF-305 I use the mixer and record straight to camera. There has never been anything wrong with the sound that was caused by the camera.
 
Petrus said:
I measured my XH-A1 audio side fed with SD302 field mixer, and the dynamic range was over 90 db. Using a cheap recorder is not going to make it any better, 24 bit sample depth is mostly an illusion with them, as the analog electronics and converters are too noisy. I just drop in to say that I fully agree with the first replies, using a nice mixer like SD302 with great meters, limiters, preamplifiers and ergonomics is a much better investment than so-so recorder with the complications with post it brings with it. Even after getting a decent recorder the same mixer is still useful: I have both SD302 mixer and SD722 recorder, and when using the SD722 (only with DSLRs) it sits in the bag with SD302. When shooting with XH-A1 and now XF-305 I use the mixer and record straight to camera. There has never been anything wrong with the sound that was caused by the camera.
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Do you plug the mixer directly to the xlr input of the XH-A1? Won't the digital converters of the camera be the weakest link on that signal path? How would a recorder such as the Zoom H-4N compare to using a mixer direct to the camera? And if I go with a mixer, I didn't want to go higher than $500... Any suggestions?

Thanks!
 
The Zoom's A/D converters are probably on par with the camera. It's the pre amp that makes the biggest difference. (within reason anyway) I can't hear much difference between my 744 and DR-40 with a 302 (via line level) front-end...
 
Ok, so what would be a good mixer for the $300 - $500 price range? The SD302 is over $1000 so well over my budget :(
 
David Evans said:
Ok, so what would be a good mixer for the $300 - $500 price range? The SD302 is over $1000 so well over my budget :(
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Rethink your budgeting process. Don't say "I have X dollars to spend, what can I get?" Try the bottom up approach "This is what I must have to do the job at hand properly. What's the best price I can find that for and where can I find the funds?"
 
The only funds I have comes from my daily job, that's why I need to have budgets, otherwise I won't be able to pay the rent and other stuff. Problem is I'm in a country where there is little to non existent movie industry, so every filmmaking project comes from a filmmaker's initiative. I'd love to have a SD302, but I know it's completely off what I can afford. But I think my biggest priority right now is a hypercardioid. I just finished a movie filled with indoor shooting, and my AT8035 couldn't handle the echos and reverberations. After the Hyper, I think a mixer with good preamp might be the way to go...
 
On camera audio is not the greatest. A mixer is great advice, and while they really help guide the audio track better than the camera's circuitry, for the times when I really want to make dead certain I do not miss the audio track, I will record to a recorder. Sometimes having that once in a lifetime sound byte that you cannot duplicate is priceless. If you are recording speeches or one-shot interviews, I find having a separate recorder to be the best insurance plan for your on camera sound track. If you are strapped on your budget, give a Tascam DR-40 a try. While it may not solve all of your issues, it is around 200 bucks, and if you watch the levels you can get a reasonable sound recording. Good luck!

Sincerely,
Bill
 
Thank you all for your great advices! From what I understand, the prices start to rise up when we talk about stereo mixers. I think I don't need one. A mono would be just fine. The purpose of the mixer would be to clean the sound and make it better before it goes into the camera. Any knows if a good mono mixer can be purchased on the <$500 price range?

Thanks!
 
Keep an eye out on e-bay for the Shure M367 mixers that are very good value and flexible mono mixers, I have two of them and paid less than $200 for each of them.

They are six channel mic/line with phantom power/ LF cut and mains or battery operation, they also have mic and line outputs and a return input with a tone oscilator and a good quality limiter.
 
Camera preamps can be fairly quiet if your mic is sensitive enough. I'm shooting a feature going directly into camera (AF100) with an AT 4053 for inside and 4073 for outside use. Both are sensitive, the 4073 is is sensitive as it gets. Audio control is set at just under 5 for most dialogue, at this level the preamps are quiet. Less sensitive mics require higher (noisier) settings and an external mixer is of great benefit. Of course these sensitve mics are not great for high SPL recording.
 
I've been trying to contact The Sound Room to buy the Oktava MK012, but nobody there is replying to my emails. Are they closed for the summer?
 
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