Camera mounted mics

J

jules213

New member
Hello, hopefully someone will post an answer to this.

I have read through the forum, and in particular the stickied thread outlining the top 5 shotgun mics, but i'm still a little confused as to the best step forward for my particular needs, with regards which mic/s to get next.

i make videos for charities and councils, all pretty much community focussed stuff, non-commercial, and pretty accommodating of my sound never being great (it's not bad, but i know it's not great). But as things have gone very well, i'd like to take a step forward and improve the sound.

It is only me, and my mic is always camera mounted. Locations will vary between outside and inside; filming activities as fly-on-the-wall, direct testimonials and intro/VO stuff.

To date (i'm cringing even admitting this in this forum :)) i use an MKE300.

I have read that shotguns are better for outside, but Cardiod/hypercardiod (i now know the term but not what it means... not that i need to i guess) are better for inside.

I have also read that the MKH416 is highly respected (and at around £650 in the UK probably the best I could conceivably afford at the moment) but that it is less forgiving for those who are less than sound professionals. The AT4073 on the other hand appears to be more forgiving.

A lot of the time I will be rushing from one spot to another to film, and a lot of the testimonials I grab have a great deal of background noise going on (in a youth club for example, with usually reticent interviewees whom I have to get what I can from when the moment arises).

I don't mind buying two mics, where one would give me a far better sound when doing quiter solo interviews and the other would be more general, but I can't see me spending more than £700 on both (slightly flexible but not much).

So (sorry for the length of my explanation), what I am asking, considering I'm a sound novice who will always have his mic attached to his camera (at least for what i do at the moment) is:

a) should I go for the AT4073 over the 416 (particularly if I only have one mic for all my uses), and will I get away with not having a c/hcardiod mic with one of these 2 if the c/hcardiod mics are out of my price range)

b) should I go for the AT4073 and a cardiod/hypercardiod for the quiter internal interviews

c) and if b) can anyone recommend a cardiod/hypercardiod mic between £2-400

Ultimately I guess whichever I choose it'll be better than what i'm using lol, but i'd still rather spend my money slightly more informed than i am now.

Thank you, and also to all those who posted in the threads i read before getting to this point.

Jules
 
Apologies... i have just read some more threads I have discovered (should have held off on the posting) and I think this is the (possibly) best step forward for me:

AT4073
Oktava MK012 (in particular the hyper cap)

Now, from what i've seen in pictures, i'm not sure if the Oktava would mount on my camera, but from what I read in another thread, it looks like it may...?

And would a K-SSM shockmount work for both these mics? And am I right in thinking a shockmount will attach to my camera?

Sorry for repeating banal, possibly oft asked questions, but because I only use camera mounting, aren't making films and am on my own, I just wnted to clarify before I buy.

Ta
 
cardioid pickup pattern... think of a cherry shape
hypercardioid... think narrow cherry with short fat stem
supercardioid... grab the stem and cherry and stretch

cardioid cuts down amount of sound in "stem" area

hyper has some back pickup but narrower front. very useful "zoning in" on a subject

super has larger back pickup and more percireved reach. so in your situation inside, you get the testimonial and the conversation going on behind that :)
(and maybe you, if you are a heavey breather, hehe)

another possibility:
consider a lavalier

pros: although omni directional, you can clip on rather fast closer to mouth(less gain)
for your needs, you can get a used tram or a new lectrosonics for $50-100 and 48p converter for under $75

cons: you now have a cable and will take you 5 seconds longer to go to your next shot ;-)

I would suggest both a mkh 416 and a tram at the same time for your testimonials and pop off the tram for the rest. You could get a used 416 with phantom power for about $700 (350 GBP) and tram with phantom power converter for $150( 75 GBP). All in a days budget. Wooohoo!

PS on Oktava.
I dont use them, but from all i read, they are bass heavy. i translate that to mean they will capture a lot of handling noise on camera
 
jules213 said:
To date (i'm cringing even admitting this in this forum :)) i use an MKE300.
Click to expand...

A WITCH!!!!! BURN HIM!!!!


As TVsound is saying, skip getting a different mic to mount on the camera and instead get something that you can get closer to the speaker. A lav, wired or wireless, is good. Downside being time to setup.

A dynamic handheld can work well too. Downside being having to coach interviewee how to properly hold the mic (many will just never "get it"), it can be a visual turn-off, and it stifles some people who need to talk with their hands. Despite the downside it can be useful in a one man band situation when you want to grab a quick 5 second sound bite from someone, "just hand them the mic."

Cheers
 
You have a couple of options -

1. I second the opinion of getting a used 416. I picked up mine (t-powered with a t to 48V phantom adapter) for $450. While I am never in favor of camera mounted mics, it has a very tight pattern and may work okay for you on the interior shots. If you're going to use it outdoors, you will need to add wind protection (this is true regardless of the mic).
2. Add a hand-held (RE-50 or similar) if you don't mind seeing the mic in the shot for the interview shots. This will give you fairly clean direct audio.

(I've heard that you need to get a barrel extender in order to use the KSSM with the Octavas - but I don't use mine that way so I'm not positive.)

Phil
 
My .02, and that may well be precisely what its worth!

1. I would skip the Oktava if you're not a sound pro. they are great mics for the money, but profoundly sensitive to handling noise. In the hands of a good sound person with a really good shock mount, you can get great sound with them. But camera mounted, or not being a pro... not so much. I use an AKG blueline hypercardiod which sounds great and has a much better resistance to handling noise.

2. On-camera mic is tough to pull off well. You need to get as close to the subject as you can. For outdoor shoots, even the slightest breeze will #&^% your audio up unless you are using a rycote softie (or equivalent) or a blimp. Keep that in mind, the mic is only the first step. You'll need shockmounts, windscreens, etc etc. I needed a new shotgun and didn't have a lot of green at the time, so I got a Rode NTG-1. It sounds pretty damn good considering, and I shoot the same kind of jobs you do. you can score the deadcat, Rode's version of a rycote softie, for about 40.00. It's not perfect but it works well in a light breeze.

3. Good audio is about mic placement. As a backup, get an iRiver mp3 player off ebay, buy a wired lav, plug it in, and drop in the pocket of your subject and clip the mic to their lapel. I've used that as a backup to good effect several times as a low-cost Digital Audio Recorder.
 
i am going to test a new chiniz friend in aweek or 2 with maximum 170 us tag for 22 cm - as camera mic it will be defenetly it as somthing else who knows:-)
 
TVSound said:
I would suggest both a mkh 416 and a tram at the same time for your testimonials and pop off the tram for the rest.

PS on Oktava.
I dont use them, but from all i read, they are bass heavy. i translate that to mean they will capture a lot of handling noise on camera
Click to expand...

:thumbup: :thumbup:
 
wabbit said:
A WITCH!!!!! BURN HIM!!!!
Click to expand...

:) I guess that's a pretty good confirmation of my error

First thank you all for replying, sorry for the delay in responding but i've been really busy (bank holiday weekends don't seem to mean anything for the self-employed).

So, in response, and just to clarify what I will do:

a) I simply won't use a hand held (unless the kids are doing on the street vox pops) as they look terrible in shot, and people either wave them around or thrust them right up to their mouths (or a mixture of both no matter how often i ask them to remember they're holding a mic)

b) I have a (here I go again lol) Sennheiser ew100G2 radio clip mic, which i've never been happy with (no matter how low i drop the db level it distorts the sound), and so it has been consigned to the cupboard under the stairs and I have had to reconcile myself with the fact i have either wasted £400 or i really am shite at sound. Another thread has said good things about the ew122-p, so perhaps i have just bought a mickey mouse radio mic. I am very aware that a clip mic that works is possibly my best choice for the interviews when i have the time to set up, so have i just bought a poor mic or should i be able to make the ew100 work?

c) It looks like you all recommend the 416, so i will endeavour to find myself a second hand one, and failing that buy a new one. I am seriously toying with upgrading my canon xl1s to a xh-a1 so i'm figuring the 416 with this would be a smart move.

So, if anyone has the inclination to reply again, what I would now like to know is whether the radio mic i have (are these what people call lavs?) is just terrible and should i get something else, or am i being a bit of a novice and with a bit more practice and application be able to make it work?

Thank you all for your input, and the idea of an mp3 player is a nice idea, even if it means lining up the sound in the edit... at least it is something to think about as an alternative/extra.

As ever, I really appreciate people's input on technical forums.

Jules
 
I have never worked with this wireless unit before. However, I am going to make an assertion. My assertion is that you are audio "challenged" :2vrolijk_08:

Get your wireless out, read the manual and then test it out on yourself in a controled environment with your cam. Check your input gain, reciver gain, camera gains. Is there distortion and the camera meters are not close to peaking? Check it out, test it, then give some more info.
 
TVSound said:
I have never worked with this wireless unit before. However, I am going to make an assertion. My assertion is that you are audio "challenged" :2vrolijk_08:
Click to expand...

quite possibly, my strength lies in storyboarding, shooting and editing... but I shall learn :)

will have another bash at the mic in a coupe of weeks, when i have some time off, but will bare in mind all you said
 
Are you reducing the gain at the transmitter or receiver? You are most likely distorting the transmitter's input. Any reduction after that will not help. Unless the unit is broken you should be able to get a distortion free signal.

Cheers
 
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