pookie_old
Veteran
Re: Camera Heads
"I used to [shot log], but that’s kind of archaic now".
A [very] misinformed opinion.
"I used to [shot log], but that’s kind of archaic now".
A [very] misinformed opinion.
Re: Camera Heads
Every once in a while I’m reminded that the only people more arrogant than law students are film students . . . or recent graduates of either. All theory; no practice.
What exactly are logging and batch capturing going to do for me, Pookie, except waste my time, put wear on machinery, and stretch tapes? There’s not a single piece of information I’d gain from the process that isn’t already in the shot list from shooting or contained in the clips themselves.
Every once in a while I’m reminded that the only people more arrogant than law students are film students . . . or recent graduates of either. All theory; no practice.
What exactly are logging and batch capturing going to do for me, Pookie, except waste my time, put wear on machinery, and stretch tapes? There’s not a single piece of information I’d gain from the process that isn’t already in the shot list from shooting or contained in the clips themselves.
Re: Camera Heads
[quote author=TC link=board=Offtopic;num=1104273877;start=30#41 date=12/29/04 at 11:58:30]Batch capture is one of the most time saving practices you can have.[/quote]
I don't agree -- not the way I shoot, anyway. Disciplined shooting does a great deal of the work for you, and then the subclip function at capture will separate all the clips. Then just delete what you don't need. As I said, all the timecode information is either previously recorded or stored on the clips themselves.
Or don't delete ANYTHING on a short project. Plenty of space on the hard drives.
But what do you have in mind, TC?
[quote author=TC link=board=Offtopic;num=1104273877;start=30#41 date=12/29/04 at 11:58:30]Batch capture is one of the most time saving practices you can have.[/quote]
I don't agree -- not the way I shoot, anyway. Disciplined shooting does a great deal of the work for you, and then the subclip function at capture will separate all the clips. Then just delete what you don't need. As I said, all the timecode information is either previously recorded or stored on the clips themselves.
Or don't delete ANYTHING on a short project. Plenty of space on the hard drives.
But what do you have in mind, TC?
pookie_old
Veteran
Re: Camera Heads
[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1104273877;start=30#42 date=12/29/04 at 12:03:17]Every once in a while I’m reminded that the only people more arrogant than law students are film students . . . or recent graduates of either. All theory; no practice.
What exactly are logging and batch capturing going to do for me, Pookie, except waste my time, put wear on machinery, and stretch tapes? There’s not a single piece of information I’d gain from the process that isn’t already in the shot list from shooting or contained in the clips themselves.
[/quote]
If you have to ask what [shot logging] what good it is, you don't understand, and most likely never will.
To others following along on this thread, please do try to have an open mind to the well established techniques that will make editing much easier and more productive. To ignore shot logs as a "waste of time", shows an attitude of "I know better" than [even] forgive me....Hollywood.
Unfortunatly, though it was intended otherwise, the comment of "Every once in a while I’m reminded that the only people more arrogant than law students are film students . . . or recent graduates of either. All theory; no practice", applies to the original poster of that statement perfectly.
Study film making David, and don't be in such a hurry to flip ahead to the end of the lessons without first getting an understanding of the art of making film (or video), you may be suprised at what you consider a "waste of your time".
[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1104273877;start=30#42 date=12/29/04 at 12:03:17]Every once in a while I’m reminded that the only people more arrogant than law students are film students . . . or recent graduates of either. All theory; no practice.
What exactly are logging and batch capturing going to do for me, Pookie, except waste my time, put wear on machinery, and stretch tapes? There’s not a single piece of information I’d gain from the process that isn’t already in the shot list from shooting or contained in the clips themselves.
[/quote]
If you have to ask what [shot logging] what good it is, you don't understand, and most likely never will.
To others following along on this thread, please do try to have an open mind to the well established techniques that will make editing much easier and more productive. To ignore shot logs as a "waste of time", shows an attitude of "I know better" than [even] forgive me....Hollywood.
Unfortunatly, though it was intended otherwise, the comment of "Every once in a while I’m reminded that the only people more arrogant than law students are film students . . . or recent graduates of either. All theory; no practice", applies to the original poster of that statement perfectly.
Study film making David, and don't be in such a hurry to flip ahead to the end of the lessons without first getting an understanding of the art of making film (or video), you may be suprised at what you consider a "waste of your time".
Re: Camera Heads
Of course. All talk, no walk. Exactly the answer I expected.
You’d think somewhere in this long-winded, insulting rant you could have fit in a few words about the advantages of batch capture over the workflow I described for the “open-minded” people, most of whom are very likely not looking to work on a large film crew with offline and online editing . . .
You’d also think you’d have the satisfaction of demonstrating that I’m wrong.
If you got it, let’s see it; otherwise, don’t bother.
And lose the attitude. Insults are a poor substitute for a lack of substance.
Of course. All talk, no walk. Exactly the answer I expected.
You’d think somewhere in this long-winded, insulting rant you could have fit in a few words about the advantages of batch capture over the workflow I described for the “open-minded” people, most of whom are very likely not looking to work on a large film crew with offline and online editing . . .
You’d also think you’d have the satisfaction of demonstrating that I’m wrong.
If you got it, let’s see it; otherwise, don’t bother.
And lose the attitude. Insults are a poor substitute for a lack of substance.
CaptainMench
Carbonite Member
Re: Camera Heads
DSR-11 and shut up. Man, I hated unplugging my wall just to grab that FW cable again... got the dsr in the rack and I don't touch it again!
CaptM
DSR-11 and shut up. Man, I hated unplugging my wall just to grab that FW cable again... got the dsr in the rack and I don't touch it again!
CaptM
pookie_old
Veteran
Re: Camera Heads
[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1104273877;start=45#45 date=12/29/04 at 13:04:30]Of course. All talk, no walk. Exactly the answer I expected.
You’d think somewhere in this long-winded, insulting rant you could have fit in a few words about the advantages of batch capture over the workflow I described for the “open-minded” people, most of whom are very likely not looking to work on a large film crew with offline and online editing . . .
You’d also think you’d have the satisfaction of demonstrating that I’m wrong.
If you got it, let’s see it; otherwise, don’t bother.
And lose the attitude. Insults are a poor substitute for a lack of substance.
[/quote]
Nope, you don't follow
[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1104273877;start=45#45 date=12/29/04 at 13:04:30]Of course. All talk, no walk. Exactly the answer I expected.
You’d think somewhere in this long-winded, insulting rant you could have fit in a few words about the advantages of batch capture over the workflow I described for the “open-minded” people, most of whom are very likely not looking to work on a large film crew with offline and online editing . . .
You’d also think you’d have the satisfaction of demonstrating that I’m wrong.
If you got it, let’s see it; otherwise, don’t bother.
And lose the attitude. Insults are a poor substitute for a lack of substance.
[/quote]
Nope, you don't follow
thartley
Veteran
Re: Camera Heads
I'm following the thread, and I have an open mind because there's plenty of room for improvement on this stuff for me. When I have done projects of my own or edits for other people, even for two camera jobs, I capture the whole tapes beginning to end. I've had no problems with this method. For the work I've done, I have not had difficulty for lack of a shot log, but that is so far. I am still learning.
Can someone tell me the benefits of batch capture? (Hey, wait, maybe I should do a search....but I will leave this question out here in case...)
I'm following the thread, and I have an open mind because there's plenty of room for improvement on this stuff for me. When I have done projects of my own or edits for other people, even for two camera jobs, I capture the whole tapes beginning to end. I've had no problems with this method. For the work I've done, I have not had difficulty for lack of a shot log, but that is so far. I am still learning.
Can someone tell me the benefits of batch capture? (Hey, wait, maybe I should do a search....but I will leave this question out here in case...)
pookie_old
Veteran
Re: Camera Heads
http://www.videomaker.com/scripts/article_print.cfm?id=10466
http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/DVE/FusionDVE/html/logging.html
http://www.simplydv.co.uk/tech/camskill6.html
http://at.unh.edu/video/logging.html
http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=182
http://www.miracosta.edu/home/juhlik/Handouts/HoShotLog.html a printable shot log blank
http://www.videomaker.com/videomaker/images/sync/Shot_Log.pdf another
http://www.videomaker.com/scripts/article_print.cfm?id=10466
http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/DVE/FusionDVE/html/logging.html
http://www.simplydv.co.uk/tech/camskill6.html
http://at.unh.edu/video/logging.html
http://www.waptac.org/sp.asp?id=182
http://www.miracosta.edu/home/juhlik/Handouts/HoShotLog.html a printable shot log blank
http://www.videomaker.com/videomaker/images/sync/Shot_Log.pdf another
Re: Camera Heads
The little Pookie-bear obviously didn’t understand a word I wrote.
I never said I didn't keep a shot log; what I said was that the practice of LOGGING SHOTS AT CAPTURE (in the NLE) and then doing a batch capture of ONLY logged shots is archaic and unnecssary in this modern world of vast and cheap hard drive space.
I log shots exactly as these articles suggest; I do it while I’m shooting. (Or someone does, anyway, if not me.)
(Go back and read my posts, Pookster.)
I record timecode – start and stop; script info (scene, take, angle, etc).
With a disciplined approach, every single one of my takes is started with a slate in the first frame.
Because of the starts and stops, when I capture an entire tape, the capture software separates each and every one of these clips cleanly, with a nice little slate for a thumbnail when I open the capture folder.
I already have my log and my shot list; I know which ones are circle takes; if I want, I just delete the takes I don’t need.
Then, with all the shots already right there on my hard drive, I can peruse them at my leisure. “Get to know them,” as one of the articles suggests. In any order I want. No rewinding. No forwarding. At the touch of a button.
Now, this is less efficient and less useful than going through tape after tape manually, logging shots manually from the tape, setting up a batch capture . . . how?
This causes more wear on equipment . . . how?
Besides, Pookie, you don’t go into an editing session without a plan as to which takes you’re going to use and how you’re going to use them . . . do you?
The little Pookie-bear obviously didn’t understand a word I wrote.
I never said I didn't keep a shot log; what I said was that the practice of LOGGING SHOTS AT CAPTURE (in the NLE) and then doing a batch capture of ONLY logged shots is archaic and unnecssary in this modern world of vast and cheap hard drive space.
I log shots exactly as these articles suggest; I do it while I’m shooting. (Or someone does, anyway, if not me.)
(Go back and read my posts, Pookster.)
I record timecode – start and stop; script info (scene, take, angle, etc).
With a disciplined approach, every single one of my takes is started with a slate in the first frame.
Because of the starts and stops, when I capture an entire tape, the capture software separates each and every one of these clips cleanly, with a nice little slate for a thumbnail when I open the capture folder.
I already have my log and my shot list; I know which ones are circle takes; if I want, I just delete the takes I don’t need.
Then, with all the shots already right there on my hard drive, I can peruse them at my leisure. “Get to know them,” as one of the articles suggests. In any order I want. No rewinding. No forwarding. At the touch of a button.
Now, this is less efficient and less useful than going through tape after tape manually, logging shots manually from the tape, setting up a batch capture . . . how?
This causes more wear on equipment . . . how?
Besides, Pookie, you don’t go into an editing session without a plan as to which takes you’re going to use and how you’re going to use them . . . do you?
pookie_old
Veteran
Re: Camera Heads
They should help with the general idea, and if you practice with a short capture, ie 5 minutes, you won't get overwhelmed as you might, if you were trying to log a full tape on your first go.
btw, thanks for the open mind, whatever you decide
They should help with the general idea, and if you practice with a short capture, ie 5 minutes, you won't get overwhelmed as you might, if you were trying to log a full tape on your first go.
btw, thanks for the open mind, whatever you decide
pookie_old
Veteran
Re: Camera Heads
[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1104273877;start=45#50 date=12/29/04 at 14:02:43]The little Pookie-bear obviously didn’t understand a word I wrote.
I never said I didn't keep a shot log; what I said was that the practice of LOGGING SHOTS AT CAPTURE (in the NLE) and then doing a batch capture of ONLY logged shots is archaic and unnecssary in this modern world of vast and cheap hard drive space.
I log shots exactly as these articles suggest; I do it while I’m shooting. (Or someone does, anyway, if not me.)
(Go back and read my posts, Pookster.)
I record timecode – start and stop; script info (scene, take, angle, etc).
With a disciplined approach, every single one of my takes is started with a slate in the first frame.
Because of the starts and stops, when I capture an entire tape, the capture software separates each and every one of these clips cleanly, with a nice little slate for a thumbnail when I open the capture folder.
I already have my log and my shot list; I know which ones are circle takes; if I want, I just delete the takes I don’t need.
Then, with all the shots already right there on my hard drive, I can peruse them at my leisure. “Get to know them,” as one of the articles suggests. In any order I want. No rewinding. No forwarding. At the touch of a button.
Now, this is less efficient and less useful than going through tape after tape manually, logging shots manually from the tape, setting up a batch capture . . . how?
This causes more wear on equipment . . . how?
Besides, Pookie, you don’t go into an editing session without a plan as to which takes you’re going to use and how you’re going to use them . . . do you?
[/quote]
And this from a moderator :-[
"I never said I didn't keep a shot log"
"What exactly are logging and batch capturing going to do for me, Pookie, except waste my time..."
Oh well... ???
[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1104273877;start=45#50 date=12/29/04 at 14:02:43]The little Pookie-bear obviously didn’t understand a word I wrote.
I never said I didn't keep a shot log; what I said was that the practice of LOGGING SHOTS AT CAPTURE (in the NLE) and then doing a batch capture of ONLY logged shots is archaic and unnecssary in this modern world of vast and cheap hard drive space.
I log shots exactly as these articles suggest; I do it while I’m shooting. (Or someone does, anyway, if not me.)
(Go back and read my posts, Pookster.)
I record timecode – start and stop; script info (scene, take, angle, etc).
With a disciplined approach, every single one of my takes is started with a slate in the first frame.
Because of the starts and stops, when I capture an entire tape, the capture software separates each and every one of these clips cleanly, with a nice little slate for a thumbnail when I open the capture folder.
I already have my log and my shot list; I know which ones are circle takes; if I want, I just delete the takes I don’t need.
Then, with all the shots already right there on my hard drive, I can peruse them at my leisure. “Get to know them,” as one of the articles suggests. In any order I want. No rewinding. No forwarding. At the touch of a button.
Now, this is less efficient and less useful than going through tape after tape manually, logging shots manually from the tape, setting up a batch capture . . . how?
This causes more wear on equipment . . . how?
Besides, Pookie, you don’t go into an editing session without a plan as to which takes you’re going to use and how you’re going to use them . . . do you?
[/quote]
And this from a moderator :-[
"I never said I didn't keep a shot log"
"What exactly are logging and batch capturing going to do for me, Pookie, except waste my time..."
Oh well... ???
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Camera Heads
Guys, let's not call people names, even if it's something as innocuous as "pookie bear"...
What I don't get is why there's this animosity. Let's try to rise above it, okay? I can see where you both are saying the same thing... keeping a shot log is absolutely vital, anybody who doesn't do that is a fool. And David does.
In the old days we'd go through and cue up the tape to the beginning of a take, mark the "in" point, FF to the end of the take, and mark the "out" point, and then add that clip to the "batch capture" list. And do this for the entire tape. Very time consuming, but that way we'd only capture in the circled takes.
Nowadays, David is saying his method is to just capture the whole tape at one time. Then, because each take is slated, he can instantly identify them, and just deletes the non-circled takes. Seems a much more efficient use of time, with the same net result -- the good takes are on the hard disk, the bad takes are ignored.
You're talking about the same thing. You're both recognizing the value of the same thing. Let's please be civil about it. If there's a personal issue, please take it to PM's and sort it out, so we can keep the board clear, okay? Thanks!
Guys, let's not call people names, even if it's something as innocuous as "pookie bear"...
What I don't get is why there's this animosity. Let's try to rise above it, okay? I can see where you both are saying the same thing... keeping a shot log is absolutely vital, anybody who doesn't do that is a fool. And David does.
In the old days we'd go through and cue up the tape to the beginning of a take, mark the "in" point, FF to the end of the take, and mark the "out" point, and then add that clip to the "batch capture" list. And do this for the entire tape. Very time consuming, but that way we'd only capture in the circled takes.
Nowadays, David is saying his method is to just capture the whole tape at one time. Then, because each take is slated, he can instantly identify them, and just deletes the non-circled takes. Seems a much more efficient use of time, with the same net result -- the good takes are on the hard disk, the bad takes are ignored.
You're talking about the same thing. You're both recognizing the value of the same thing. Let's please be civil about it. If there's a personal issue, please take it to PM's and sort it out, so we can keep the board clear, okay? Thanks!
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Re: Camera Heads
I have been doing it the way David suggests and am satisifed with this method. To be fair; I will peruse these articles and see if I am missing something or see an added bene to doing it differently.
I have been doing it the way David suggests and am satisifed with this method. To be fair; I will peruse these articles and see if I am missing something or see an added bene to doing it differently.
TC
Resident Agitator
Re: Camera Heads
[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1104273877;start=30#43 date=12/29/04 at 12:06:52]But what do you have in mind, TC?[/quote]
Okay, I'll jump in the ring! But I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, I'm just telling you what I do.
Doing the batch logs makes it easier for me for storage purposes. That way, when a project is done I can burn my project files to a cd along with my batch log, but I throw the footage away.
So if I ever have to go back to a project, I pull out the CD and the DV tapes and I have a way of getting to the exact spot that I had left it.
When I said it was time saving, I was talking about the actual process of creating the batch log in the NLE from the shot list that was on set. Then just clicking "capture" and letting my NLE do the rest.
But what do I know? I still black my tapes.
[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1104273877;start=30#43 date=12/29/04 at 12:06:52]But what do you have in mind, TC?[/quote]
Okay, I'll jump in the ring! But I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, I'm just telling you what I do.
Doing the batch logs makes it easier for me for storage purposes. That way, when a project is done I can burn my project files to a cd along with my batch log, but I throw the footage away.
So if I ever have to go back to a project, I pull out the CD and the DV tapes and I have a way of getting to the exact spot that I had left it.
When I said it was time saving, I was talking about the actual process of creating the batch log in the NLE from the shot list that was on set. Then just clicking "capture" and letting my NLE do the rest.
But what do I know? I still black my tapes.
pookie_old
Veteran
Re: Camera Heads
I'm Cool ;D
onward and outward......
I'm Cool ;D
onward and outward......