Camera for First Time Director

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notharrylume

Active member
I've written a short narrative piece for my first film. I'm trying to decide what camera to shoot it on. I don't have a lot of money or film experience. I want to own rather than rent so I can take time to practice and devlop my skills. Coming from a fine art background image quality is important, but my budget doesn't permit a 35mm adaptor. I've narrowed down my choices to:

DVX 100 A/B (used):
Pros: Inexpensive/full featured-good ergonomics/easy DV workflow
Cons: SD; small sensor - excessive DOF
​
HVX 200 A (used):
Pros: HD; full featured-good ergonmics/4:2:2/AVCIntra workflow
Cons: small sensor - excessive DOF; expensive P-2
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HMC 150:
Pros: HD; full featured-good egonmics
Cons: small sensor-excessive DOF; AVCHD quality and workflow
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Canon 7D:
Pros: HD; inexpensive; large sensor-limited DOF; interchangeable lenses
Cons: Poor egonomics; limited features & sound; weak codec and challenging workflow.
​
I would very much appreciate your thoughts about which solution you think would best fit my needs. Thanks very much.

Dennis


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Just buy what can afford and works best for you. Any of those cameras can be amazing in the right hands. I would go HVX or HPX (used) or 7D personally.

But if money is your main issue then followed by image quality, the 7D seems like your best bang for the buck. You will just need something like a H4N for audio.
 
Why not find someone who has the gear and is interested in working with you? There's a lot more involved than just a camera no matter what you buy. The story is king...if it's good, doesn't matter what you shoot with. Have you checked out all the other cameras out there? What about a HV20... that camera still rocks & you can find one for $300-$500 these days.

Just 2 cents....
 
I was in your similar situation a year and a half ago. i wanted to invest in the camera so I could hone my skills as a filmmaker and then invest in renting high quality equipment when I was ready for big projects. I chose the path of the DVX100b. I would say it is the best choice. I feel it provides a soft vivid image that seems much less digital than the others. If done right this camera is very powerful story telling tool. I read somewhere that when the DVX100b was invented "16mm would now be dead". If done right this camera can offer the qualities of film for the low price of DVtapes. Remember that HD footage of the other choices will require a computer with some heavy lifting capability. Just do your homework on these products because they are all great. Just my personal opinion. cheers:beer:
 
ZazaCast said:
Why not find someone who has the gear and is interested in working with you? There's a lot more involved than just a camera no matter what you buy. The story is king...if it's good, doesn't matter what you shoot with.
Just 2 cents....
Click to expand...

I'll match that .02 and raise a million bucks.

There are two kinds of people who want to buy cameras to direct.

1) They want to learn and understand the camera and how it is an important tool in bringing a creative vision to life.

2) They don't have much interest in that and would rather be focused on story and performance, but don't think that they have a choice because they don't know anyone who can help them.

In both of these situation you are better off finding someone with skills and gear. In the first case you will learn more in a day of watching someone else who knows what they are doing then you will fumbling around on your own. Don't wait until you are shooting your movie. Find someone and go work with them (or observe) on someone else's shoot if you can.

In the second case, find a collaborator so you can focus on the things you want to. You can learn a basic skillset as you go.


Most areas have camera ops and DPs looking for that kind of opportunity.

I'm not saying you shouldn't buy a camera. I'm just suggesting that you should review your motivation and make a decision based on what is most effective.
 
I'm in the same situation.

Except, I'm not wanting to "run" the camera. Never have. I'd learn to, if it became the only way to get my film shot.. But, I'd much rather have someone who "wants" to do that.. do it. So I can do what I "want" to do, which is more on the directive/creative side of things. The only problem I am running into is, the person I have running the camera.. is suggesting we shoot on HD, but he only has a SD camera. I don't think it matters too much, and we should use what we have. I think its silly for me to purchase a 3-4k dollar camera when I don't really want to be a "camera operator". If I have to, I will.. but you see where I am coming from.
 
I do see where you are coming from. Why doe he want to shoot in HD? The higher res is really not a good enough reason unless there is a specific venue that requires it. I have shot plenty of stuff on a DVX that looked great on a big screen.

If your script and performances are good, and your DP knows what he is doing, nobody will care (or notice) that it was shot on SD.
 
Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

I'm coming from a little different place. I want to shoot my own work. When I used to shoot art photography I never shot less than medium format, and in the end I shot large format, and so HD attracts me because the quality of its image.

I'm nearing retirement and my dream is to make my own films under my own rules. My goal right now, and it may well be imposssible, is to be as much of a one man band as possible, in as much as I really enjoy all the bloody details.

I wrote my screenplay to minimize cast and location to make production easier. I have detailed storyboards and camera plots, and I pretty much know the compostion of each frame.

I figure that buying a camera will let me transition my still photo experience into the moving image, and that if I chooose well I can use ithe camera for my next, longer piece (or maybe even stitch the pieces together into something longer). I have spoken to cinematographers who have suggested Red cameras, Fisher dollies, first AC's and the like, but I really want to do it all, and I don't want to spend all my money on this production.

I think my story is good, but I'm sure not sure that it is that good, and if I spend money on a camera, at least I'll have that at the end.

Am I deluded, or is there a way to realize this?

Thanks again for your interest. I really appreciate it.

Dennis
 
If your goal is the process of doing it all yourself, then I don't think you are deluded at all.

We all do this for different reasons and I completely respect yours.

When you are done with this project, you may decide to bring someone in on your next one, or you may be happy enough with the results that you want to continue solo. Making films is difficult, and I have found that having to divide your attention on set between actors, camera, lights, sound, and whatever other logistics there are make it impossible for me to focus on what is most important at the time. But if that experience is what you are looking for, I wish you the best of luck.

As for cameras, I think that a DVX will do the job just fine. I've shot features on them and they give great images, are a low investment and within a few hours are pretty simple to understand.

Let us know how it goes.
 
I have a D90, if i had to chose now id go 7D (BUT I also like photography so a DSLR is a win win for me)

I can tell you this, the shots that i get with my camera (D90) are up there in quality that surpases the nearly $4k Canon XL2's that they have at my schools video studio.

(perhaps not a super fair comparison of HD to SD, but still)

Then again, DSLR's do have a bit of a higher learning curve, and have limitations like jello, cannot be handheld as easily, etc...

so just do your homework first.

jon!
 
After thinking about all what everyone has said I think I'm going to get a used DVX100b for the following reasons:
- I've got so many things to work on that I need all the camera features and ergonomics I can get so I can spend time worrying about lighting, framing, performance, camera movement, blocking, etc.
- the used DVX will cost about half the 7D by the time I've dealt with extra for audio, lenses, external monitoring etc. for the 7d and that money can go to basic lights, camera support, etc.
- at my skill level some extra definition isn't what is going to make or break my piece
- to edit DV I can use my old computer, which isn't good enough for HD
- the editing learning curve is going to be steep enough without the extra challenges of h.264 compatibility, transcoding and other issues
- I can get a varizoom remote follow focus for $100 instead of either 40 times as much for a Bartech or bleeding to death on the bleeding edge of EOS live view
- I can light and ND to shoot wide open and push the focal lengths as long as possible for some limit of DOF
- by the time I'm ready for the next step who knows - there may be something vivd reddish with an orange tinge available!

​
Not to say that giving up an the resoution of an HD image isn't making me a little wistful...

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Dennis
 
I think you made the right choice. As someone who did the "shoot it all myself" thing for a few years I can attest that you don't want to shoot with a shallow DOF camera or adapter without a dedicated focus puller. For a run and gun one man operation having a good autofocus is a lifesaver.
 
Good choice.

I've shot lots of stuff on HD, and done a bunch of shoots and post on the Red with great results. But I'll shoot with my DVX until the day it dies. :grin:

I love that camera...although I do prefer the tape mechanism on the A to the B.
 
Dennis/NotHarryLume,
You sound like me...wanting to do it all which I am preparing to do again. I've shot two films this way and I realize my problem was the script not the production. SO for the last few years I have been honing my writing craft and preparing three scripts to shoot. I'm holding out for the Red Scarlet (If it ever comes out). Let me ask you if you are ready to shoot with a script that you think may not be up to par. Without a great script you cannot make a great film. Would you like for me to give it a once over...read it and give you my two cents worth? I want people to succeed and we all know we need great films to watch. Free of charge! Get my two cents for free. Send me a note to: curtis@filmschoolnow.com
 
i guess it depends what you want to accomplish with the film and what your career goals are. if you want to become a cinematographer, sure go ahead and buy a camera. if you want to become a director, i think you should hire a DP that owns his own camera. real directors don't operate the camera. they communicate to the DP what they want using words and storyboards and let the DP do his job. also, the money you spend on even a used camera would be better spent paying a DP, and then spending the rest to get higher production value, or post production which everyone underestimates, or your next film. but if you still want to buy a camera, i have a nice dvx100a for sale!
 
Most pro DP's don't own their own camera either (well, maybe a few small ones), because different films demand different set-ups. They rent.
 
notharrylume said:
After thinking about all what everyone has said I think I'm going to get a used DVX100b for the following reasons:
Click to expand...

My only problem with my DVX100A is tape... I hate tape... Unfortunately, I've never had the money to buy one of these fancy disk deals, and so, I have had to live with tape...

But other than that, it has sufficient controls to allow one to feel like 'they are in control' rather than accepting some engineer's implementation/compromises of some marketeer's assessement of the features needed for the point and shoot camera user...


The one thing I did recently notice though, is the low light level isn't as good as my 'point and shoot" Sony HDR-S11... but for a 'production' I wouldn't be shooting at that low a level anyway...
 
lairhair said:
I would save that money to hire a DP with a camera. Especially if you dont want to run camera.
Click to expand...


I'm going to respond as I've responded in the audio forum when this sort of 'advice' comes up.

If this were a budgeted film, this sort of advice would probably be appropriate... heck even understood in the process of getting the budget...

But for most people who post here, I think providing camera information for a 'camera for first time director' is far more useful. Further, I also think the so called 'japanese' style of learning a process... actually the concept of 'total training' was first developed in the US, then because of lack of response in US industry, and was successfully taken up in Japan, it has become a 'japanese' style, but the point is learning all aspects of the craft, even if one is going to specialize, in this case perhaps directing, is beneficial.

Someone will quickly sort out if camera operation (or audio, or scriptwriting, or editing) is their 'cup of tea' or not... and will then be able to better estimate the quality of a DoP's work... rather than just rely on someone's promotion reel... that may or may not be footage they actually shot... as in '...really on set as the delivery boy/girl for the craft services.'...
 
You could still get a DOF adapter with an HV20 and have something that looks really great.

HV20 - $400
TwoneilHD DOF adapter - $400
Beachtek adapter (for XLR) - $200
Nikon manual 50mm f/1.8 lens (to start) - $100

So for $1100 (probably less if you find used items), you can have a fantastic HD setup that will also give you the option of DOF. It won't be as sharp as the 7D, but you will have more options in the long run. Just a thought.
 
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