camera for first indie feature ?

Randall_Oelerich

Randall_Oelerich

Veteran
Let's say I plan to make an indie feature in 18 months. Right now I have a Canon VIXIA HF100. Given budget is an issue, should I
a. buy two more VIXIAs and two more tripods so I could shoot three cameras at the same time for a speedy shooting schedule?
b. buy one prosumer camcorder like the Canon XHA1 for $3500 and a second tripod, use that along with my VIXIA for a two camera shoot?
c. sell my blood and plasma to needed vampires so as to raise extra cash to buy two prosumer camcorders and tripods for a two prosumer camcorder shoot during production?
 
Well what kinda of movie is it? Drama/Comedy, I'd just stick with one camera. Action, 2 or more cameras. By no means are those hard and fast rules though.

If it was me, I'd much rather work with matching cameras, and at that I'd much rather work with prosumer or better. That said you already have the vixia and know how to use it (I'm assuming at least). How will you handle audio with it though? XLR's with phantom power can make life pretty easy. Of course buying an XHA1 will require a beefier (more expensive) tripod than your VIXIA. Any option to rent or borrow? Maybe bring someone onto the project that has some of this equipment already.

If you arent the DP, I'd talk to your DP and see what he/she thinks. They'll be the one working with the camera. Also look at what kind of grip/lighting budget you have. While I'd prefer a camera with a focus/zoom ring and a little bit of heft as well as larger sensors and hopefully better glass, I'd trade all of that for more light stands, flags, sandbags, c-stands, etc.

Bottom line is, a better camera wont make your film that much better if you dont have the proper tools and skillset to get it done with a crappy camera.
 
I actually had a BeachTek adapter for my VIXIA, so I was able to use my RODE NTG-2 mic (phantom or battery) and a nice carbon-fiber boompole. And though it looked silly, I had a really nice carbon fiber Bogen Manfrotto heavy duty tripod, nice fluid head (super smooth pans, etc!). I pretty much shot idiot mode with the VIXIA, so I would not go so far as to say I know how to use it =). I actually know the XH-A1 as well as the VIXIA-- laugh your arse off but I have actually bought and sold (on ebay) an XH-A1 twice in the past 18 months-- I wanted to get into filmmaking, then freaked out psychologically over the complexities of it all likely from reading too many books (as in about 50 books on screenwriting/filmmaking that I bought and read) instead of just making a fricken short film. Yesterday I read through Dov Simens book again (Reel to Deal) and summarized the salient points in an 8 page text document, and wow now it all seems so much simpler, the business side at least of making and hopefully selling an indie film. And as Dov says, make a weekend short, then go make an indie feature! I made the one short, have plans for one or two other shorts to learn and practice skills some more, then I want to dive in and make an indie feature, start preproduction in 9-12 months (technically starting now, if you include writing the script). Don't know the genre yet, just today starting the script development-- likely drama, or supernatural thriller if I could pull off the VFX/CGI special effects.
 
Cool, sounds like you are ahead of the game really. If you arent even sure of the genre, why are you worrying about the camera? I do the same thing though and love to freak out about technical crap and worry about what codec or whatever but right now I'd be focusing on the story. You have gobs of time to worry about the camera. Find a friend in Minnesota with a nice camera that perhaps would be willing to help out and loan the camera to the project or even DP it. Unless you are planning on shooting weddings and corporate stuff or DP'ing other's projects I wouldnt buy a camera. Get a DP for your next short and let that be an audition. If they are good and you work well together then keep making movies together. If not keep looking. While you can direct/DP/produce I can guarantee its easier to do just one or two of those jobs.

Good for you for doing all that reading. Its really something I need to do. Just work on compartmentalizing everything. Dont worry about the camera right now. Write the script. Block it out/Storyboard it. Go over the blocking/boards with the DP and discuss angles and all that tech crap and the look and feel to the movie. Then decide what camera(s) can do the job you've outlined and fit in the budget. I could tell you to buy 2 A1's right now but you might write a script that would be great with tiny cameras you could fit in small spaces. Now you'd be wanting the VIXIA's or hv20's or something. See where I'm going? Each aspect of the film can be treated this way. art direction, audio etc. etc. It all hinges on the story though. Without a story all you can do is guess and most likely waste some money along the way. Also with a good story you can get people excited about your project. The more excited they are the better chance they'll actually want to be a part of it and help out even if its no/low budget. Of course if you have the budget they should be compensated appropriately. For right now the focus on the story and pre-production. Take notes as you think about what camera could do what but save those notes for later. I'm quite guilty of being scattered and worrying about whats not important and it only slows me down. Good luck and keep us posted on this.
 
Thank you. And I 5000000000% agree I would love to have a DP deal with the shoot, I watch featurettes of movies, making of featurettes, and see directors who seem to have fun just directing, not having to worry about all the other hats to wear, wow would i love to do that; of course indie budgets dictate we wear so many hats. But without good video and sound I agree it is all for nothing. Probably will be all new cameras around in a year anyhow, so for now I will focus on preproduction, a story built around available locations. I have two completed feature screenplays, but unfortunately they do not fit the KISS formula, so I need to think on a KISS screenplay that stands a high chance of success on a small budget. Making a list of available cinematic locations here where I live, then usually I wake up at 5am with a great story idea then hit the coffee shop and crank out the writing. I actually have one great idea, but I have to think if I could pull off the CGI for it; supernatural thriller. Would be a lot simpler in post to just have filmed a drama or rom com, etc.

Jeff Anderson said:
Cool, sounds like you are ahead of the game really.... While you can direct/DP/produce I can guarantee its easier to do just one or two of those jobs. ...
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Yeah I think you are on the right track with the KISS idea. Something that doesnt present too many challenges. Dont set yourself up for failure. Heck making a movie that isnt fx intensive is hard enough :) Start small work your way up. You're dead right about having to wear so many hats. Its nice when you dont have to but not every budget allows for that. Just split up those hats as much as you can. Give the DP hat away and maybe even the production manager hat away. Let someone else be the super-organized one worry about time and such. You worry about your actors and their performances. Give more hats if you can but you get the idea. And if you cant, you cant. I think you'd be surprised at who you might find if you start now though. Each short just get more and more people involved and excited about your project. Pretty soon you'll have alot of people that are wanting to know whats next. When you have enough of those, embark on the feature. Just my opinion though. You do what works for YOU.
 
Randall_Oelerich said:
I actually have one great idea, but I have to think if I could pull off the CGI for it; supernatural thriller. Would be a lot simpler in post to just have filmed a drama or rom com, etc.
Click to expand...

Go out to Video CoPilot .net . You can see all of their tutorials. all you need is After Effects and a lot of time. You can do anything from small X-men type effects (eyes going white to projectiles). They show you how to change the background and more. What's great about VideoCoPilot is that all the tutorials are easy to follow and can be done with HDV cameras.

FX might not be that far out of your league, if you check the tutorials and base your screenplay around the effects already present on their or on Creative Cow. But I think VCP is better.
 
Definitely! Even more so than DP (I mean I could run the camera and light if I have to, budget wise, and I do like that, the art of framing shots, as I have a strong art and photography background actually), but a PM or Unit Production Manager or Line Producer or whatever such a person is called to handle the organization of it all would be fantastic so I do not freak; but where do you find such a person able to work on an indie where it is filmed? Do I find such a person in LA and then have to fly them to my city and put them up in a motel for the shoot?

Jeff Anderson said:
... Give the DP hat away and maybe even the production manager hat away. Let someone else be the super-organized one worry about time and such. You worry about your actors and their performances.....
Click to expand...
 
Well you could but I'd look for another filmmaker in your area that is well organized and willing to help out. Flying someone out from LA without working with them first sounds dicey and expensive to me. Worst case get a really anal rententive friend and get them involved in all the aspects of pre-pro and let them be your organizer and devils advocate for time and budget. By the time production rolls around they'll be involved enough to keep the shoot running smooth hopefully. And I dont know what the heck they are called either :) You might be able to find a willing soul on craigslist or mandy. Or on dvxuser. There are a few other minnesotans right?
 
I actually bought quite a few products of Andrew's there on videocopilot, very nice. I bought After Effects just a few weeks ago, and learned it as best i could in about two days in order to do a couple of CGI/VFX scenes in my little short film, and also to do my title and end credits with motion graphics. Such a powerful piece of software, not sure though if i can figure it out for advanced CGI stuff, but if I could I could sure do a nice indie feature i actually fleshed out as a short script but that could become a feature, on a KISS principle albeit with CGI effects added in.

Tutorials at Andrew's site are marvelous. And once I figure out the basics of keyframing and modifying parameters for various things like particles and such it gets easier.

jls4 said:
Go out to Video CoPilot .net . You can see all of their tutorials. all you need is After Effects and a lot of time. You can do anything from small X-men type effects (eyes going white to projectiles). They show you how to change the background and more. What's great about VideoCoPilot is that all the tutorials are easy to follow and can be done with HDV cameras.

FX might not be that far out of your league, if you check the tutorials and base your screenplay around the effects already present on their or on Creative Cow. But I think VCP is better.
Click to expand...
 
Depends on what kind of VFX work you are looking to do. What I do on projects is everything I can't handle myself when my company is brought in - I outsource. We recruit a lot for short term contracts. With several artists who are our go-to people. Anything else - we recruit when it requires a larger team of people. Or people to do something I can't. Some of the recruiting takes place right here on DVXuser from time to time. But really, simplicity is something that doesn't really exist in CGI. It is controlled chaos. :)

As per hiring producers and stuff. I think the AD should be something to really look for. There are a lot of capable AD's who work not in LA. A good AD will really help you out. A bad AD, (I've been a second AD on a show where our AD was worthless - and let me tell you - that show went downhill extremely quickly). A great AD will really help move things along. I would recommend hiring an AD who actually knows how to AD rather than getting a friend.

A properly formatted strip board on set is a wonderful thing. Best of luck with it.
 
Randall:

My view on this is that given your budgeting constrains, you will have to make compromises (obviously). I believe the HF100 is capable to assist you in your endeavor, which means that you should consider other aspects such as lighting aspect, as any camera you will use, needs proper lighting of your scenes.

I would say, the main thing you need to figure out is your story and after you have a proper storyboard done, you will understand if you can shoot with one camera, if you need professional actors or you can call in your buddies, your lighting requirements and so on. You won't know what you need unless you know what needs to be achieved :)

As for VFX, well, a cheesy VFX is always a turn-off for me (I suspect that for others as well), which means that a well done VFX would require much time, patience and skills. For a first indie feature, perhaps I would go with less VFX and more camera work, proper angles, framing etc, money spent on a DP would be extremely rewarding, more than the VFX part, consider a DP and have proper shots.

Wish you all the energy required to pull off such a project :)
 
How about two HF21s? They're harddrive cameras. I was considering these but decided to go for the Canon XH-A1 or the new Sony FX1000.

-Nate
 
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