DarkMatter
Veteran
Check this out, looks like Deliverance part 2 only more twisted.
http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/calvaire/trailer
http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/calvaire/trailer
Calvaire-the Ordeal
- Thread starter DarkMatter
- Start date
The Machinist
Respected Member
I'm a little hesitant to say it but....i think i smell modern cult classic.
Filmjunkie677
Master of Horror
Damn.
This looks friggin awesome.
This looks friggin awesome.
The Machinist
Respected Member
I watch this trailer and i get the feeling i got the first time i saw the texas chainsaw massacre.
The Machinist
Respected Member
The trailer calls the director
Fabrice Du Welz
The European master of horror.
I looked him up on IMDB and he only has 2 other films listed one of which is a short film the other has no synopsis or any info really.
Does that seem a bit off to dub him that title when he still seems to be new to the game.
Not to detract from his obvious talent but when i hear master of horror i think of directors who have at least a couple of features under their belts.
Fabrice Du Welz
The European master of horror.
I looked him up on IMDB and he only has 2 other films listed one of which is a short film the other has no synopsis or any info really.
Does that seem a bit off to dub him that title when he still seems to be new to the game.
Not to detract from his obvious talent but when i hear master of horror i think of directors who have at least a couple of features under their belts.
chromeboy007
Well-known member
this looks pretty sick... but in an era of High Tension and Hostel and Hills Have Eyes... I don't know, I'm a little desensitized. there is a rental place around where i live, they have B-movies with a little staff advisory signs on them. they read like "warning, extreme violence". Hills Have Eyes don't have that warning sign, perhaps it is considered to be too conventional. Im afraid to watch those B ones....
The Machinist
Respected Member
You're holding yourself back.
A few of those might be really good. (if i knew titles i may be able to recommend some)
Hostel is MTV trash in comparison.
God i hate eli roth.
DarkMatter
Veteran
I feel an instant classic. Oh and Eli Roth, should die a Hostel death.
DarkMatter
Veteran
Don't know about the Terry Gilliam thing... But It's got a Wickermanish feel to it. Ok.. that's not a word.... But it should be.
chromeboy007
Well-known member
MOVIE STUNTS said:
LOL! He is an American so you need $50000! but why is he so hated? I like Hostel... I like it better then High Tension. I can give my reasons why if you want... Note that this is coming from someone who has high regards for International Cinema...
The Machinist
Respected Member
chromeboy i would love to hear how you could possibly like Hostel over High Tension.
chromeboy007
Well-known member
The Machinist said:
1, tighter 3 act plot.
look, my fav. films and filmmakers go beyond the 3 act thing, but if you are gonna do 3 act, do it right. the plot structure of Hostel, while a little old school and text book'ish, is pretty good IMO! I can't think of a better act 2 climax than that of Hostel's in this genre (then again, I'm not a scholar in horror) - that feeling of utter hopelessness, the my-friend-just-got-totured-and-died-a-terrible-death-and-now-the-same-thing-is-gonna-happen-to-me-and-there-is-no-one-to-save-me-within-a-hundred-miles-and-it-is-all-my-fault act 2 climax. the question the audience has in mind when Jay Fernandez is left alone in the torture chamber in the dark is who is gonna save him... Roth answers the question with the first thing we see: his own torturer, entering the room.
compare that to High Tension: the antagonist drives away from the gas station.... like, you don't even know if it is a good or bad thing for the protagonist.... how is this a good act 2 climax?
now this is just one out of many reasons i have... let's hear what you think first... I have to work man!
The Machinist
Respected Member
I don't follow you here. If you could clarify that statement.
First let me say there was one scene in Hostel i liked. The scene where the "nice guy" is tortured and gets his achilles tendons sliced.
I hate Hostel for everything it came to represent in its 3rd act.
I could buy the first two acts. I don't think they were great by any stretch of the imagination but they were passable.
However i felt the third act was insulting my intelligence. Roth implemented cheesy plot devices, twist and turns, and mind numbing coincidences. I'll admit that it was probably a parody on horror films. But that's not what i went to hostel to see.
This script was terrible and the acting left alot to be desired. Also i thought the visual style of the film was very bland and GENERIC.
Now high tension. Definately not a perfect film in its own right. The twist at the end enfuriates me as it does alot of people.
However up to that point i loved this film. It promised gritty no holds barred shock horror and delivered on every count.
And it was superbly well made for a horror film. It had a unique style all its own, the camera work was perfect for pulling me into those tense moments.
And the sound design. PHENOMENAL.
If the entire movie could have held onto what was achieved in the home invasion sequence i would have dubbed this the greatest horror film of the past quarter century and sacrificed two chickens and a goat at the golden calf of Alejandre Aja's pagan altar.
The murders were gruesome and realistic. The villain was stupendous. He didn't say a single thing for the first half of the movie. But his persona and aura were completely on mark with the actions of a killer. While he's hunting you hear him breathing, you hear the cracking of his leather, and you see him standing with his face overshadowed by the bill of his baseball cap and this man exudes the air of a PREDATOR.
The shot in the corn fields with the little boy. Man i defy you to find anything in Hostel that comes close to that.
High Tension was flawed but it is still in a whole other league from a hack flick like Hostel.
chromeboy007
Well-known member
The Machinist said:
The end of Act 2 in High Tension is when the murderer drives away from the gas station taking Marie with him and leaving the protagonist behind. Now, I breathed a sigh of relieve at that scene because the protagonist is in the clear. No one really cares about Marie in the truck at that point... that's its act 2 climax, and it's weak compared to the one in Hostel. With Hostel, I prayed that Jay Fernandex would get away...
I have mixed feelings about Hostel's 3rd act.. I'll admit that the near fantasy revenge sequences are teen'ish. Other than that, the first half kept me on the edge of my seat, and the whole "business" aspect of selling people to people to torture and kill is chilling to me. That to me is the true source of horror in this movie, to think that normal people like you and I would participate in this utter inhumane thing. (Miike: you can spend all your money is there...) and it is far more original and far "deeper" then some jealous psycho lesbian b1tch.
hmm... I don't usually judge a screenplay based on its' dialogue unless it really sucks like Star Wars 1- 3. I don't see how terrible Hostel's dialogue is if that's what you meant. The behaviour of the leads in Hostel are far more realistic than that' of High Tension's. Some of the chick's behaviour didn't make sense: like staying up in her room at the early part of the home invasion - which is a major reason why the sequence is so good in that it allowed the villain to isolate all his victims. HT employs alot of genre conventions: useless cops, useless rescuers, isolated victims, careless villain (the gas station men's bathroom, not killing the protagonist in the green house when he had a chance to) The behaviour of the guys in Hostel are completely realistic. They were all responsible for their behaviour. and the bad guys (and chicks) were realistically ruthless...
I guess I should agree with you that the camera work in HT is better... I'm not as "into" films esthetics as you are. But one thing you are absolutely correct is the sound effects of the villain. the leather, boots, switch blade etc etc. my strengthe and focus is more on the writing...
i got more, but your turn first!
The Machinist
Respected Member
I totally dig the premise of Hostel.
I just think it was very poorly executed.
When i talk about the script what bothers me is how cardboard all the characters are. Even the people running the joint and the women who lure them there. They're all just plain stereotypical "evil" folks. Not that the kind of people running a place like that should be sympathetic but they didn't have to be two steps away from cartoon characters like the "butcher" dude when jay hernandez is hiding under corpses.
Not that the characters in high Tension are fantastically drawn. They're stereotypes in their own right however i think the script presented them in the right way. They were more organic and believable to me at least.
Sure the script has flaws but i felt it was handled with alot more care than Hostel.
And i totally disagree with your second act argument.
i wanted jay hernandez to bite it. and horrifically. Guy was a douchebag.
Why did you not care for Marie? She had to listen to her entire family be slaughtered. And now she's being wisked away by some raving maniac to god knows where for a purpose we can only imagine is going to be horrifically gruesome. (as much so for the audience as her character)
I felt that point was great because it was the turning point for the heroine. She has to go kick some ass in order to save her friend. Cause what human being could live with themselves if they saved their own skin to allow their friend to succomb to a fate worse than she is capable of imagining.
Jay Hernandez deserved what was coming to him for being so goddamn stupid and laissez faire in terms of traveling in a potentially dangerous foreign country.
I can see you're a huge fan of the 3 act structure and that's cool. And story is important to me also but my standards for horror scripts are a bit lower than other genres.
You're right on the money when you say aesthetics are important to me because when it comes to horror i'd rather watch an older concept presented in an original well made way than see a really cool concept like hostel get butchered by a hack like Roth.
I shed tears when i heard he's adapting Stephen King's Cell. But if he pulls that off I will be one of the first one's on here to congratulate him for exceling.
I just think it was very poorly executed.
When i talk about the script what bothers me is how cardboard all the characters are. Even the people running the joint and the women who lure them there. They're all just plain stereotypical "evil" folks. Not that the kind of people running a place like that should be sympathetic but they didn't have to be two steps away from cartoon characters like the "butcher" dude when jay hernandez is hiding under corpses.
Not that the characters in high Tension are fantastically drawn. They're stereotypes in their own right however i think the script presented them in the right way. They were more organic and believable to me at least.
Sure the script has flaws but i felt it was handled with alot more care than Hostel.
And i totally disagree with your second act argument.
i wanted jay hernandez to bite it. and horrifically. Guy was a douchebag.
Why did you not care for Marie? She had to listen to her entire family be slaughtered. And now she's being wisked away by some raving maniac to god knows where for a purpose we can only imagine is going to be horrifically gruesome. (as much so for the audience as her character)
I felt that point was great because it was the turning point for the heroine. She has to go kick some ass in order to save her friend. Cause what human being could live with themselves if they saved their own skin to allow their friend to succomb to a fate worse than she is capable of imagining.
Jay Hernandez deserved what was coming to him for being so goddamn stupid and laissez faire in terms of traveling in a potentially dangerous foreign country.
I can see you're a huge fan of the 3 act structure and that's cool. And story is important to me also but my standards for horror scripts are a bit lower than other genres.
You're right on the money when you say aesthetics are important to me because when it comes to horror i'd rather watch an older concept presented in an original well made way than see a really cool concept like hostel get butchered by a hack like Roth.
I shed tears when i heard he's adapting Stephen King's Cell. But if he pulls that off I will be one of the first one's on here to congratulate him for exceling.
chromeboy007
Well-known member
The Machinist said:
hmm... my fav filmmakers are WKW, Lynch, Tarantino and the likes.. so I'm not that into 3 act. I studied it though. i know it when i see a tight 3 act plot.
Jay Hernandez's character and his friends ARE douchebags... that's why I like them, that's what make them human. They are flawed, just like us. They just wanted to find beautiful women and get laid, just like us (well me anyways, not sure about you!! j/k). and the bad guys... you are right they are a bit two dimensional, but they are just running their business, doing their jobs.. maybe they should be bland. the fact that the butcher is bland says alot about him.
I guess we disagree on act 2 climax because I root for my guy and you root for your girl.... alright. but i still maintain that there is nothing like the nightmare he finds himself in at that time though.
as for Marie... i asked myself why I don't give a crap about her and I realised that I don't know much about her - lack of character empathy. the only reason why ppl would care about her is circumstantial: she is kidnapped by the maniac, like you said. but you can easily substitute her with any other girl and the feeling is the same. at the climax of the movie (which looks amazing - love the serene background), I dont give a sh1t about anyone any more... I also feel that by then Aja has ran out of fuel, so he takes out the chainsaw and throw as much blood as he can into the frame...
Hostel's coincidences filled ending might be cheese, but the protagonist's revenges contribute more to the story and his character then HT's to its.
all and all, Hostel feels more real and human to be than HT...
The Machinist
Respected Member
We've hit an impasse then.
We've interpreted these two movies in completely different ways.
But at least it was a civil discussion.
Different sensiblities make the world go round.
Just wanted to say i agree with this. It would explain the pointless twist at the end also and kept this one from true greatness in my eyes.
On another note thinking about ways to improve Hostel.
I thought they could have used Miike's cameo to greater affect. Perhaps in the Butcher's room they could have tossed out a little MPD Psycho reference by placing a severed head with a flower sticking out of the exposed brain in the background. I could have gotten a real kick out of that.
We've interpreted these two movies in completely different ways.
But at least it was a civil discussion.
Different sensiblities make the world go round.
Just wanted to say i agree with this. It would explain the pointless twist at the end also and kept this one from true greatness in my eyes.
On another note thinking about ways to improve Hostel.
I thought they could have used Miike's cameo to greater affect. Perhaps in the Butcher's room they could have tossed out a little MPD Psycho reference by placing a severed head with a flower sticking out of the exposed brain in the background. I could have gotten a real kick out of that.
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