Built-in limiter?

Re: Built-in limiter?

Hi, I've been reviewing some live rock music footage of mine, in recording I simply put high end mics at 2 considered locations in the room and hooked them straight up to the DVX XLR lines.

The recording sounded good on playback (it was topping at 11 bars so there was no sign of red -but very close). Until I reached a part where I had accidentally bumped the audio level control up a few notches at which point it sounded absolutely unrivaled!

Of course this small section of aural brilliance only lasts about 10 seconds because when I was recording I realised immediately that the levels had started peaking out of control and required immediate "correction".

So I think the moral to my story is:
"if your levels aren't hitting red then your levels are too low"

and possibly

"if your levels are only just hitting red then your levels are too low"

Is having the ALC turned on a good idea for this type of recording?

Cheers
Pete
 
Re: Built-in limiter?

I find that in a noisy situation (heavy traffic or loud music) that the indicator goes into red section very easily,
and I have to adjust the levels manually. then when in a more normal situation the levels are far too low; and I have to reset the controls, this is with a.l.c.on....I don`t completely understand. Can anyone help?
 
Re: Built-in limiter?

the alc is automatic limitter control , the limmiter activates in -6 dbfs and limit the audio to -4.5dbfs maximum to prevent you hit the digital brick wall 0dbfs( the last red befor nothing)
the alc doesnt do anything if the lsignal dont hit the -6 dbfs mark( the third red mark from the top) , so that have nothing with automatic gain control which exist on other cameras ( consumer or beta or big dv tipe) , so yes you must manually rise the level when it to low and decrise them not to activate rhe alc to much
each dot is 2db, for good recording try to stay between the 3rd and the 6 red on your picks , thats all right to be red - its better then to be dead ( sound)
 
Re: Built-in limiter?

OK so if I turn off the ALC and do a recording that just so happens to hit -1dbfs (what exactly does dbfs stand for?), is there going to be any more distortion than if it had been -4.5dbfs (limiter on)?

Why does it limit it to -4.5dbfs and not -0.5dbfs?

Thanks
Pete
 
Re: Built-in limiter?

If you not distort the analog stage of your camera preamp its ok , as long you hiy the -1 , the volium rise is in the digital domain , so be carfull - you might distort your sound and still be "ok" with your dvx levels
the dbfs is db full scale

here is the explanation in good english

http://www.jimprice.com/prosound/db.htm#dBFS

each device place the limmiter in different place , sony 150 put hard limiter in -1 dbfs , the panasonic probably becouse the slope and the activating time ,is much better , it much softer limiter of 1,5 db range and also come to prevent extrimly loud signal which can go ferder then -4.5bfs .
both channels are ganget with limitter so activating on one channel effect the secend as well
 
Re: Built-in limiter?

Pete, that can be dangerous advice sometimes... If you have a good clean signal you can always make it louder in post (L1 Maximizer from Waves is a great way to do this). However, once you clip you're done...

A limiter can be a good feature but it doesn't really prevent bad things from happening it just makes that bad thing sound less bad. A compressor (which is what I think Barry_S is referring to, can help prevent bad things. But, if I were going to rely on such tools, I would probably use outboard gear and turn off any level controls contained in the camera. Of course it you're doing that you might as well record to a better recorder...

Matt
 
Re: Built-in limiter?

if its not brick wall that not dangerous , dangerous if you dont know what are you doing , eventually if we are talking recording classical musik , i hit the -2 on tascam 98 allot of times ,dangerous - but you are going with smiling face to do the master , not for every one not for every situation .
so my answer was hipotetic about if it good , yes it is , if you have to do it , not nesserly:-)
about limmiter on dvx , usially the fast editing which go straight to the air asking and limiting the levels to _10dbfs maximum pick level to prevent problems with transmition , so the -6 is about in the eria that they wouldnt hire you again if it becoming to many , but for normal dialog for editting you have more s/n ratio and better quality signal ,
so the -6 dbfs is a nice place to put the limmiter , exacly where i like it ( i dont use it since have much better on the mixer)
 
Re: Built-in limiter?

Please can I just ask, where exactly in the camera menu do you find the ALC option? I've had a good hunt through the camera and the manual and I'm really starting to think this could be a PAL/NTSC model difference -I have a PAL model.

Hopefully I'm wrong and someone can tell me where it is and I can say "Oh yeah, didn't see that".
 
Re: Built-in limiter?

Phew, found it. Thanks oleg, I think I was too tired to notice it listed as "MIC ALC" when I was looking for "ALC". Does the limiter affect XLR inputs?

cheers!
Pete
 
Re: Built-in limiter?

oops, that question was already answered earlier on in the thread, I told you I was tired!
 
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