Building audio kit from scratch for travel documentary

H

HansSteinert

Well-known member
Hi all, I am looking to build a basic but professionally adequate audio kit for an upcoming travel documentary. Settings will be very uncontrolled and the kit needs to be light enough for mobility. The piece will be shot with a 5D III (I am the cinematographer and assistant director) with a mounted Rode videomic pro for reference audio, and the clean audio used in the finished production will be recorded with completely separate system that another employee will operate.

I have ready the stickies and purchased/watched the DVXUSER Film Sound video and have developed a basic list for our kit, but I wanted to run it by the current active community for critiques.

1. What is the budget that we are working with (either immediately or over the next few months): 2k

2. What type of films are you doing (short dramatic films, feature dramatic, documentary, interviews): Travel documentary

3. Are your locations PRIMARILY interiors or exteriors? Both with potential for harsh weather and noisy environments.
4. Will you be shooting outside at all with sound? Yes

5. What level of experience do you have with sound? Minimal myself, but our audio operator has 6 months experience.

6. What is the outlet you are hoping to have with the projects (DVD release for profit, web distribution, theatrical): Web distribution, possibly local film festivals

7. Is this purchase for a specific project or are you looking to purchase a kit for general future projects? Specific project is the primary target we are purchasing for, but considering it is our first professional kit, we do expect it to be fundamentally adequate for future projects that we can expand with gear on if necessary.

8. Why do you feel that it is beneficial for you to buy sound gear versus hiring a professional (or networking for free with a professional) to do your audio? Long term investment and limitations on who we can fly for the documentary

9. Will you have a dedicated person to run sound (even a friend to hold a boompole)? Yes

10. Do you notice the difference between good sound and poor sound when you are watching films? Absolutely

Kit list so far:

boom pole: Gitzo Carbon Fiber GB3560 $300
Shock Mount: KteK KSSM $130
cables: $75
2 mics (hyper and shotgun):
Oktava MK-012 (HC ONLY) $200
Audio Technica 4043a Shotgun Mic $500
blimp with fur: Rycote BBG $100 & Rycot Softie $100
sound recorder/mixer/amp: Tascam DR-680????
bag: ?
headphones: ?

We are undecided on what sound recorder is best for our needs. Information on that, along with critiques on our current list and recommendations on headphones/bag, would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for any information. If you need to know any additional information about the project for what equipment is best for us, please ask.
 
Last edited:
Given your budget this is what I would look at...

225 Gitzo 1540 - Four-Section Carbon Fiber Boompole
99 Rycote Softie for the Oktava MK-012
230 Rycote 18cm Standard Hole Softie Kit with Lyre Mount and Pistol Grip Handle
60 2 x Canare Star-Quad (L-4E6S) cable with Neutrik Connectors - 25 ft
200 Oktava MK-012 Hyper Cardioid Mic
400 Sennheiser MKE600 Shotgun Mic
500 Sound Devices MM-1 Boom-Op Preamp
150 Tascam DR-40 Recorder
40 2 x SanDisk 16GB SDHC Memory Card Extreme Class 10 UHS-I
83 Sony MDR-7506 Pro Headphones
--------------------------------
1987 + Bag for boom op

- The Sennheiser MKE600 sounds quite good ( if there was more money in the budget I would upgrade this to a Rode NTG-3 which is designed to work well in high humidity )
- The Oktava MK-012 mic sounds good, but it's low output needs a good pre-amp like the Sound Devices MM-1
- The Sound Devices MM-1 does all the heavy lifting, so the DR-40 simply records the line output from it.
- The Rycote Softies can be used both indoors and outdoors ( but only good for light winds outdoors )
 
TheDingo said:
Given your budget this is what I would look at...

225 Gitzo 1540 - Four-Section Carbon Fiber Boompole
99 Rycote Softie for the Oktava MK-012
230 Rycote 18cm Standard Hole Softie Kit with Lyre Mount and Pistol Grip Handle
60 2 x Canare Star-Quad (L-4E6S) cable with Neutrik Connectors - 25 ft
200 Oktava MK-012 Hyper Cardioid Mic
400 Sennheiser MKE600 Shotgun Mic
500 Sound Devices MM-1 Boom-Op Preamp
150 Tascam DR-40 Recorder
40 2 x SanDisk 16GB SDHC Memory Card Extreme Class 10 UHS-I
83 Sony MDR-7506 Pro Headphones
--------------------------------
1987 + Bag for boom op

- The Sennheiser MKE600 sounds quite good ( if there was more money in the budget I would upgrade this to a Rode NTG-3 which is designed to work well in high humidity )
- The Oktava MK-012 mic sounds good, but it's low output needs a good pre-amp like the Sound Devices MM-1
- The Sound Devices MM-1 does all the heavy lifting, so the DR-40 simply records the line output from it.
- The Rycote Softies can be used both indoors and outdoors ( but only good for light winds outdoors )
Click to expand...

What's the benefit of buying a Tascam DR-40 with a dedicated amp over a single sound recorder with amp (Tascam DR-680)? Is the latter not powerful enough on its own to drive the Oktava?

If you have a few minutes, could you explain the reasoning behind choosing a different boompole model and shock mount? Hearing you explain why you prefer one over the other will help further my understanding of all of this. I'm eager to learn. Thanks man.
 
The handling noise with the Oktava mounted on a Ktek KSSM will make your audio useless.
 
Never heard of anyone having a dedicated boom op on a docu shoot, nor did I ever have one on the hundreds of docus I've worked on. Usually a 3 or 4 person crew.. Camera, Sound, Producer and/or director.. ENG.. run & gun, interviews, ect. If we were lucky, we would have a PA to help out.
I'd much rather boom myself than have unskilled person do it, this applies to low budget films as well.
 
HansSteinert said:
What's the benefit of buying a Tascam DR-40 with a dedicated amp over a single sound recorder with amp (Tascam DR-680)?
Click to expand...

I think the Sound Devices MM-1 trumps the DR-680 when it comes to pre-amps, it's also very battery efficient, and it is physically close to being indestructible. The MM-1 could take a beating where I'm not sure the DR-680 would stand up as well under the same conditions. The Tascam DR-40 is low cost, so if it was damaged it could be replaced without breaking the bank.

HansSteinert said:
could you explain the reasoning behind choosing a different boompole model and shock mount?
Click to expand...

I chose the shorter boom pole to try and keep to your $2000 budget, otherwise the longer Gitzo pole gives you more reach without adding much extra weight.

As for the Rycote shock-mount, it's largely personal preference. I like the Rycote Pistol-grip and Softie combination as it can be set up in 30 seconds and the same set-up can be used indoors and outdoors, so you don't have to change anything if you go from indoors to outdoors in the same shot. You can also use the pistol-grip by itself, which is handy in tight spaces ( like filming in a car ) where there is no room for a boom.
 
Last edited:
Rick R said:
Never heard of anyone having a dedicated boom op on a docu shoot, nor did I ever have one on the hundreds of docus I've worked on. Usually a 3 or 4 person crew.. Camera, Sound, Producer and/or director.. ENG.. run & gun, interviews, ect. If we were lucky, we would have a PA to help out.
I'd much rather boom myself than have unskilled person do it, this applies to low budget films as well.
Click to expand...

To clarify, he's managing all of our production sound. He's not just a boom OP.
 
HansSteinert said:
Are they just a bad match is the Ktek a poor shock system?
Click to expand...

The Oktava mic is long known to be sensitive to handling noise. ( I own a Ktek KSSM which is now one of my back-up shock-mounts. I've never owned an Oktava mic as I use an AT4053b for indoor dialog recording )
 
TheDingo said:
The Oktava mic is long known to be sensitive to handling noise. ( I own a Ktek KSSM which is now one of my back-up shock-mounts. I've never owned an Oktava mic as I use an AT4053b for indoor dialog recording )
Click to expand...

And the shock mount you recommended in your list will pair well with the Oktava? Perhaps the Oktava is not the right mic for a documentary piece since we are going to be in very uncontrolled environments given the handling issue... or is this a nonissue with a stronger shock mount?
 
I wouldn't say it's a "stronger" shock-mount, but it does a better job at isolating boom noise from the mic. ( I imagine that the Ktek KSSM would still be usable, but the Rycote Lyre mount would be my first choice )

I haven't used it with an Oktava mic, but the Rycote pistol grip with the Lyre mount works with a very wide range of mics, so I imagine it would work well with the Oktava too.
 
I used a Rycote Invision shock mount for the Oktava.. highly recommended.
The Oktava is a great mic for the money but subject to the slightest wind movement as well as the handling noise. The 'Dorcey' mod helps some with the infrasonic (LF) issue.
I wouldn't even think of using the 012 outdoors, if that's your 'one mic' intension.

"To clarify, he's managing all of our production sound. He's not just a boom OP"
-- Then why ins't this person specifing gear.. or already own it?
Good Luck
 
Last edited:
TheDingo said:
Given your budget this is what I would look at...

225 Gitzo 1540 - Four-Section Carbon Fiber Boompole
99 Rycote Softie for the Oktava MK-012
230 Rycote 18cm Standard Hole Softie Kit with Lyre Mount and Pistol Grip Handle
60 2 x Canare Star-Quad (L-4E6S) cable with Neutrik Connectors - 25 ft
200 Oktava MK-012 Hyper Cardioid Mic
400 Sennheiser MKE600 Shotgun Mic
500 Sound Devices MM-1 Boom-Op Preamp
150 Tascam DR-40 Recorder
40 2 x SanDisk 16GB SDHC Memory Card Extreme Class 10 UHS-I
83 Sony MDR-7506 Pro Headphones
--------------------------------
1987 + Bag for boom op

- The Sennheiser MKE600 sounds quite good ( if there was more money in the budget I would upgrade this to a Rode NTG-3 which is designed to work well in high humidity )
- The Oktava MK-012 mic sounds good, but it's low output needs a good pre-amp like the Sound Devices MM-1
- The Sound Devices MM-1 does all the heavy lifting, so the DR-40 simply records the line output from it.
- The Rycote Softies can be used both indoors and outdoors ( but only good for light winds outdoors )
Click to expand...

I agree with most of this - however I would go for the Rycote Universal Camera Kit rather than the Softie.

Don't tell Rycote, but I would not go for a Softie nowadays - the Rycote MiniSCreen with it's Windhammer (supplied as part of the Universal Camera Kit) is actually about 5dB better than a Softie.

For off-camera use I would go for a Rycote S-series. For us on and off camera I would go for a Universal Camera Kit plus the pistol grip with Lyre shockmount designed for the Softie.

The Sennheiser electret gun mics are surprisingly good in the damp outdoors - this was told to me by a wildlife recordist who regularly takes his Sennheiser electret to the arctic to record wildlife (ie: the most Northern part of mainland Europe - Norway, north of Finland and close to teh Russian border).

I would go for the Sennheiser HD 250=-1 II headphones over the Sony (a lot more efficient and the industry standard in the UK and mainland Europe).

I don't know the boom pole recommended - my personal first choice would be an Ambient with second choice being a Rycote (carbon fibre of course).
 
TheDingo said:
I think the Sound Devices MM-1 trumps the DR-680 when it comes to pre-amps, it's also very battery efficient, and it is physically close to being indestructible. The MM-1 could take a beating where I'm not sure the DR-680 would stand up as well under the same conditions. The Tascam DR-40 is low cost, so if it was damaged it could be replaced without breaking the bank.
Click to expand...
---- I would agree with Dingo that this would be a better, more efficient set-up.. unless of course more than two tracks are needed.
While the 680 has 'decent' preamps, they're not in the same league with the SD's. Futhermore the 680 is more cumbersome, challenging to operate and the (eight) internal batteries do not last long.. (even w/o Phantom Pwr.) so an external battery pwr. supply would be recomended.. which would add weight to the bag. All of which should factored in for docu shoots.
 
I own the DR-680 and use it with a SD442. The DR-680 is primarily a recorder, and offers some limited mixing abilities. You could use it as your primary mixer, but it's a little clunky. Amazing value for the money though.
 
I agree w/ Jim, a good value but clunky. You can 'mix', sort of, though not 'on the fly'.. to the HP out and/or Trk.s 7-8. It would be possible to set up a secondary mixer for RCA outputs1-6, but that wouldn't be very prudent in a bag. Battery power is also an issue, as the internal battery power (8x AA) doesn't last long, even w/o Phantom Prw.
 
From the list it seems like you will primarily be using the boom and therefore a single track. I would definitely go for the MM-1 or the mixpre-D into a DR-40 instead of the DR680. Even if you want to get a more advanced recorder with more channels for later projects, you will most likely still have lots of uses for these preamps, and the DR-40 could then be a back-up.

The standard headphones are the Sony 7506 and the Sennheiser HD25-1. Both are built to last and offers good detailed monitoring, but the Sony is cheaper and semi-open (some say it can be a bit harsh and tiring with long use though), while the HD25 isolates extremely well. I find that it's mostly a matter of preference, if you want good isolation or not.
 
Rick R said:
I used a Rycote Invision shock mount for the Oktava.. highly recommended.
The Oktava is a great mic for the money but subject to the slightest wind movement as well as the handling noise. The 'Dorcey' mod helps some with the infrasonic (LF) issue.
I wouldn't even think of using the 012 outdoors, if that's your 'one mic' intension.

"To clarify, he's managing all of our production sound. He's not just a boom OP"
-- Then why ins't this person specifing gear.. or already own it?
Good Luck
Click to expand...

I made this thread primarily for him, as he doesn't have an account here. Many on this site have more years of experience than him and have used a greater variety of gear, so both him and I really appreciate the input from you guys.
 
ZiDdyYT.png


Expanded the budget a bit. Thoughts on this kit? Anything missing? Good choices? After researching the Rode ntg-3 appears to have amazing SQ value and is perfect for harsher environments.
 
Headphone are a matter of personal preference, (comfort, sound, ect.)
For example, one person might find the Sony comfortable while the next person may not.. not like clothes, they're no available in a variety of sizes.
"The Sony is cheaper and semi-open"
-- According to Sony, the 7506 is a "Closed-Ear Design" with benifits of "Comfort and reduction of external noise interference"
FWIW, cheaper yet, the Sony MDR-V6 is almost identical to the 'professional' 7506. I had a set of the V6 and didn't notice any differnece in sound or comfort than my subsequent set of 7506.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top