Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
I can't speak for anyone else, but this has been very helpful to me.
BTW, My wife works for HP. I buy Dell anyway.
BTW, My wife works for HP. I buy Dell anyway.
Building an editing system
- Thread starter ChuckS
- Start date
emotepix
Well-known member
Hi All
I have editing setups in Mac and PC, and use XPress HD and FCP HD on both. Around a 1.5G CPU in both cases, 1GB RAM in both cases, 7200rpm firewire HDDs in both cases, not the cutting edge of technology computer-wise but they work well. I'm currently running two stations, each with a dual screen PC and Mac, KVM'd together. Both stations are connected via a wideband router to each other and to the Internet.
They both work well but I've been having trouble getting them to talk to each other (PCs and Macs, that is). Cross Stripe works decently (allows XP to read Mac Avid media) enough, it's just that linking is a headache and Avid only supports a few picture resolutions, so picture media translation is a pain.
Because the program makers are in competition, it isn't easy getting an Avid session to talk to a FCP session, so I pretty much have to make up my mind which project to cut using what program from the get-go. Here's what I base my decision on:
a) if it's multiple camera, scripted or for later online at another house, Avid.
b) if I'm on a very tight deadline, Avid again.
c) if there's a little more time and I need an entire show with graphics, compositing: FCP
d) if there's producers wanting recuts, then Avid.
For me the Avid interface is what's worth it. Avid HD just un-crippled the multicam function, which I use at work all day long. The script function is excellent, and the ability to make and manipulate subclips just as easily as source material all count for a lot when working speedily.
The FCP is, for me, a more pleasant experience overall. This is editing for pleasure and less for profit. I don't like Avid as a corporation (probably because I use one all day long) and feel the way they've exploited their product is pretty unconscienable (but what do I know?)
I love the integration with other Apple products (AE and Shake particularly) and miss the pro EDL support, easy bin and multicam manipulation,and forced use of nesting.
Also, for me, the Avid system pretty much forces you to be organized, media-wise. It creates folders and backups, not you, and so when more than one person is working on a project, it's a no-brainer to locate where the materials are.
FCP is another story, you can put the files wherever you want, and if you don't note that down or tell someone else...
I pretty much use one computer for editing and the other for CG, compositing, audio repairs, whatever, and bounce media between the two. The reason why I do that is because some programs only come for one platform or another, and I believe in having the maximum number of tools at one's disposal, the easier to pick the right one for the job.
If you edit a lot, though, I think that both programs make life easier than PPro. I use Logic, SoftImage, Maya, Combustion, Shake, AE and Pro Tools on an everyday basis and have had problems with the work flow in PPro from the beginning. I do like their pro interface now, but I think that Avid and FCP (after FCP4) both have advantages over Ppro that are decisive.
JM2C
YMMV etc
HTH
Cheers
Chris
I have editing setups in Mac and PC, and use XPress HD and FCP HD on both. Around a 1.5G CPU in both cases, 1GB RAM in both cases, 7200rpm firewire HDDs in both cases, not the cutting edge of technology computer-wise but they work well. I'm currently running two stations, each with a dual screen PC and Mac, KVM'd together. Both stations are connected via a wideband router to each other and to the Internet.
They both work well but I've been having trouble getting them to talk to each other (PCs and Macs, that is). Cross Stripe works decently (allows XP to read Mac Avid media) enough, it's just that linking is a headache and Avid only supports a few picture resolutions, so picture media translation is a pain.
Because the program makers are in competition, it isn't easy getting an Avid session to talk to a FCP session, so I pretty much have to make up my mind which project to cut using what program from the get-go. Here's what I base my decision on:
a) if it's multiple camera, scripted or for later online at another house, Avid.
b) if I'm on a very tight deadline, Avid again.
c) if there's a little more time and I need an entire show with graphics, compositing: FCP
d) if there's producers wanting recuts, then Avid.
For me the Avid interface is what's worth it. Avid HD just un-crippled the multicam function, which I use at work all day long. The script function is excellent, and the ability to make and manipulate subclips just as easily as source material all count for a lot when working speedily.
The FCP is, for me, a more pleasant experience overall. This is editing for pleasure and less for profit. I don't like Avid as a corporation (probably because I use one all day long) and feel the way they've exploited their product is pretty unconscienable (but what do I know?)
I love the integration with other Apple products (AE and Shake particularly) and miss the pro EDL support, easy bin and multicam manipulation,and forced use of nesting.
Also, for me, the Avid system pretty much forces you to be organized, media-wise. It creates folders and backups, not you, and so when more than one person is working on a project, it's a no-brainer to locate where the materials are.
FCP is another story, you can put the files wherever you want, and if you don't note that down or tell someone else...
I pretty much use one computer for editing and the other for CG, compositing, audio repairs, whatever, and bounce media between the two. The reason why I do that is because some programs only come for one platform or another, and I believe in having the maximum number of tools at one's disposal, the easier to pick the right one for the job.
If you edit a lot, though, I think that both programs make life easier than PPro. I use Logic, SoftImage, Maya, Combustion, Shake, AE and Pro Tools on an everyday basis and have had problems with the work flow in PPro from the beginning. I do like their pro interface now, but I think that Avid and FCP (after FCP4) both have advantages over Ppro that are decisive.
JM2C
YMMV etc
HTH
Cheers
Chris
ChuckS
Veteran
Sorry to keep buggin everyone about this :embarasse , as I mentioned earlier I have a Canopus DV Rex RTPro, it has been great but I would like to upgrade from P6.5 to PPro 1.5 and it appears that the relationship between Adobe and Canopus is not what it used to be. I have not heard good things about the integration between the two and my card is no-longer "officially" supported. This, in part, is what started me on this quest for a new system.
I have heard good things about the Matrox RT.X100. They make a lot of claims on their website about improved performance and added features. Something that I did not like about Canopus was that for the most part when I edited in 6.5 in order to get R/T I used their transitions, rarely did I use the Premier transitions. It seems that PPro 1.5 has moved beyond this level of performance offering as many R/T transition without an accelerator card (Canopus or Matrox).
So do I need one of these? Is anyone using the Matrox RT.X100 with PPro and if so how do you like it?
Sorry about dragging this out, but this thread has been very helpful.
Thanks
I have heard good things about the Matrox RT.X100. They make a lot of claims on their website about improved performance and added features. Something that I did not like about Canopus was that for the most part when I edited in 6.5 in order to get R/T I used their transitions, rarely did I use the Premier transitions. It seems that PPro 1.5 has moved beyond this level of performance offering as many R/T transition without an accelerator card (Canopus or Matrox).
So do I need one of these? Is anyone using the Matrox RT.X100 with PPro and if so how do you like it?
Sorry about dragging this out, but this thread has been very helpful.
Thanks
keith_soucy
Active member
Last I checked, the Matrox RT.X100 will not support 24p. That pretty much puts it out to pasture in my book.
Don’t see why you’d need/want it either. Given the fast PC you’re buying and PPro1.5’s editing capabilities, you should be plenty pleased with what you can do and how fast. If you want to edit MPEG you can upgrade to mainconcept ’s pro encoder. Everything else should be covered "out of the box".
Don’t see why you’d need/want it either. Given the fast PC you’re buying and PPro1.5’s editing capabilities, you should be plenty pleased with what you can do and how fast. If you want to edit MPEG you can upgrade to mainconcept ’s pro encoder. Everything else should be covered "out of the box".
Sirius_Doggy said:
Unfortunately, P4's don't support Dual Processors. Only Xeons do currently. However, we do have SMP's close cousin *Hyper Threading* built into most new P4's. It will simulate SMP. You can use just one Xeon in a workstation as long as you have a "terminator" card in the other slot. But what's the use of having a Xeon workstation without Dual or Quad processors? Hope that helps. ~reservoir~
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
keithsoucy said:
This is intriguing me. 6 months ago my PC (Dell 8100, 1.4GigP4, 768megRDRAM, 40 gig HD plus 160 gig HD) had slowed significantly. I suspected spyware and was right. I couldn't get it all off though. So I disconnected from the internet (using an old laptop for my DVXuser fix) and put it in the basement to do only video/photo editing, and multitrack recording. But it still runs really slow. Too slow for video, and it freezes up all the time
So I found a disc that says "for the reinstallation of windows ME" I know, ME sucks, but it's all I have at the moment.
How do I get rid of everything on my primary drive and start from scratch? It seems like the only way to get things moving again. My PC crashed a few years ago and I did it, but the Tech guy from Dell walked me through it.
Secondly, I keep only applications on my primary drive, using my second HD for file storage. Dumping my OS and all the apps won't affect my second drive, correct? I can't afford to lose that stuff.
I'm a little intimidated by this, but I can't afford a new PC, and I need to be able to edit. Any thoughts would be helpful. Thanks.
ChuckS
Veteran
I recomend checking out http://www.majorgeeks.com - they are kind of the dvxuser.com for PC's. They helped me through the very thing your talking about. It always amazes me how fast and knowledgable the moderators of that site are.vjbrennan said:
Check them out and let me know if it helps.
Good luck :beer:
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
That link did help. It took a while but I was able to scroll through the forums and find some answers. Of course, not all of what I needed, but I posted the rest of my questions there. Thanks Chuck.
ChuckS
Veteran
I've found that not only do they have a good knowledge base, but they are quite good about answering specific questions and making suggestions on how to do things.vjbrennan said:
I have just ordered a new computer, as soon as I get it running I'm going to reload Wind2K on this system - I'll let you know how it goes.
HansK
Veteran
ChuckS said:
I have a RTX100 and it's a love/hate thing. It doesn't support 24 fps editing. They instead added the support to their expensive Axio SD/HD product line. You can edit 24p footage as native 29.97 ntsc. But, if you want 24pa you are out of luck. The hardware setup if also tricky. You have to be really careful with your hardware setup otherwise you will run into problems. Sometimes to the point of non-useability.
If you are editing 29.97 (ntsc) or 25 (pal) then the RTX100 is great. It's extermely fast for editing, color correction, etc.. So fast that you begin to wish you never had to leave the environment.
It's true that faster machines these days make real time editing a possibility with PPro. But that is really only the case if you are doing simple edits. Start throwing in multiple layers, effects across the timeline, etc. and you will bring your system to its knees. Editing with the RTX100 you won't have this problem.
Xeon/Pentium 4 are the same(exact)
Once upon a time intel made the pentium, and it became pentium mmx.
Then to make money on a currect product they added the word Xeon and also made support for multi-proc systems.
The regular pentium and xeon where the same, so the computer hardware hackers out there quickly hacked there Xeon motherboards to be able to use regular pentiums in the boards.
Intel lost a million here and billion there, then that decided they would modify the sockets used for the Xeon that way you would have to do an expensive hack to get 2 regular pentium(P4's) to work in a dual Xeon motherboard(they also have quad(4 pentium 4's)
but if you have the money to do that you might as well buy 2 Xeons and get the intel 3 year warrenty,
Get a
Intel Pentium 3.4 Ghz with Prescott core
or
AMD Athlon 3500+ with Winchester core
and
2 gigs of ram (great prices on ram right now)
4 sticks of 512mb will cost you under $200
get a nice motherboard with dualchannel(both amd/intel have them)
raid card if you need it
Windows XP 64bit is coming soon(already free beta available)
So the AMD is a pretty solid choice, it is cheaper and has hidden power(64bit) that is not in use.
Xeon has the option of added cache, but with P4 Prescottz 1mb there is none for it,
Once upon a time intel made the pentium, and it became pentium mmx.
Then to make money on a currect product they added the word Xeon and also made support for multi-proc systems.
The regular pentium and xeon where the same, so the computer hardware hackers out there quickly hacked there Xeon motherboards to be able to use regular pentiums in the boards.
Intel lost a million here and billion there, then that decided they would modify the sockets used for the Xeon that way you would have to do an expensive hack to get 2 regular pentium(P4's) to work in a dual Xeon motherboard(they also have quad(4 pentium 4's)
but if you have the money to do that you might as well buy 2 Xeons and get the intel 3 year warrenty,
Get a
Intel Pentium 3.4 Ghz with Prescott core
or
AMD Athlon 3500+ with Winchester core
and
2 gigs of ram (great prices on ram right now)
4 sticks of 512mb will cost you under $200
get a nice motherboard with dualchannel(both amd/intel have them)
raid card if you need it
Windows XP 64bit is coming soon(already free beta available)
So the AMD is a pretty solid choice, it is cheaper and has hidden power(64bit) that is not in use.
Xeon has the option of added cache, but with P4 Prescottz 1mb there is none for it,
keith_soucy
Active member
vjbrennan said:
Hear you woes vjbrennan: spyware and viruses is the vain of all PC users.
It’s good that you keep 1 drive for the OS and apps. You are correct, if you truly have 2 separate physical hard drives (and not just a partition on 1 that makes the computer think you have 2), than wiping out the OS drive will not affect the second HD.
Honestly, I hate making these types of recommendations without knowing a person’s level of technical skills. It’s not hard to replace a HD at all, and you likely will have to eventually, but as I’m sure you’re aware you could render your PC dead quickly if you go about doing it wrong.
Don’t know how tight money is; you could go to eBAY and buy a cheap 7200rpm 10-20Gig HD for around $30 including shipping (maybe less if you get lucky with your bidding) and swap the original out. Chances are you have a 5200rpm drive so the new one would be faster, and if you have any problems with the OS install you could just put the first back in.
Hope this helps!
BLUESPIDER
DVXuser Ninja
hmm, I don't know about you guys but I used to own matrox and canpous capture cards and both were working great till one day my matrox card went out. Soon after the canopus card. Then I got my canopus up and running again and decided to upgrade to Premiere pro and realized that it didn't support it. I was forced to buy a cheap $15 "temporary" replacement firewire card for the time being. I notice that this $15 firewire card quality looks no different from the $1500 canopus storm and the $1000 matrox 100. Am I missing something? I figured why buy another $1500 DVstorm when I can get a $15 firewire card that gives the same quality. Am I wrong?
keith_soucy
Active member
HansK said:
Hansk, never used Matrox but always admired from afar. There was a time when the advantages were crystal clear. Not sure if you’ve used PPro1.5 lately on a new PC. My experience is that I often have many sequences open on a project, each with multiple levels and almost everything has some type of effect applied, and life is good. Scary good actually considering what PPro1.5 is doing: I’m the bottleneck. The only time the system bogs down is when multiple Magic Bullet effects are applied to the same timeline; than previews are jittery and renders are forever. I get around that by editing everything but MB in the first few sequences and then bringing them all together in one final sequence where I then apply MB. Press start and wait.
Of course, I’m shooting 24p 99.5% of time these days so the RTX100 isn’t an option for me anymore. Just wanted to let you know that the performance of the new software versions/PC systems are getting better than what they used to be.
keith_soucy
Active member
theos said:
Ahh, I was wondering if anyone was going to call me on that: No. The Belkin KVM I use will only support 1 analog signal (other manufactures support 2 and digital but way more $$). Don’t need it though:
2 PCs - Each graphic card has a digital + analog out.
2 flat panels monitors – Each has a digital + analog in.
The KVM allows me to toggle between the 2 analog signals. Then I push a button on the monitors to toggle between digital and analog. Makes for a little more work than just pushing 1 button (and would confuse the heck out of anyone who just sat down at the system that didn’t know which monitor was what) but now that I’m used to it, it works fine: 2 PCs sharing 2 monitors (and I have about $400 more to spend on DVX accessories).
Tip: to help keep track, use different windows backgrounds that label which PC you're working in...
BLUESPIDER, I use DVStorm2 & when I got Edius 2.5 it included a license to install on a laptop. My question to Canopus was "How does it work without Storm" ... Their answere was that 2.5 will work without it but if you use it with Storm it should make a Pentium 3 run like a Pentiun4 & so on. Very mystifying.