Budget

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RyanMKincaid said:
Andrew,

Not sure what the new budget is but a lot of what RyanT is saying is spot on. I'm not sure how much stuff you changed since posting this thread but DSLR is obviously the best choice for such a low budget project. You have no lighting in the budget and the 35mm adapter route will not help you scale down your budget because of that. Similarly, if you're recording to another source, why are you messing with such an expansive recorder with the H4N is equally as good (enough). As for lenses, you can get some older Nikon glass or Pentax glass much cheaper than a full lens kit. Have you planed your shot list? You may only need like 2-3 lenses total instead of both the Nikon and Ziess sets, especially if you're looking to do a multiple camera set up. (28, 50, 85, and just move the camera back or forth).

How soon do you plan on shooting? Can you pick up some items used on eBay? Have you checked out cheesycam.com for substitution ideas (follow focus, matte box, shoulder mount). I mean is there any gear you can DIY/build? I still don't believe you don't have a lighting package listed, not even Chinese lanterns or Smith Victor photo lights?

Honestly RyanT makes some very strong points on a lot of things. As for lavs and stuff like that; there's ways around that as well; a cleverly hidden shotgun mic connected to a 15' xlr cable, smart shot choices, etc. Lastly, and this is my 2 cents; because this is obviously a bigger deal than "zero budget" classifies (because of the need of permits and insurance) you need to be extra miticulous with your planning. The less components involved, the more planning and work you need to do.
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Could you point me to were to look for lenses, because I can't find a single place cheaper then renting them... And it comes out to about $2250 to rent a full set of primes and 2 zooms for a month.

Canon 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM L Series Zoom - $300
Canon 24mm f1.4 II USM L Series Prime - $450
Canon 18-135mm f3.5-5.6 EFS - $200

Zeiss Canon EF Mount Set from LensRentals.com - $1268
21mm f/2.8
35mm f/2
50mm f/2 Makro
85mm f/1.4
100mm f/2 Makro

I have no shot list because I have no script yet. I'm working backwards, finding what I can afford and then writing based on that.

And just as a side note my bank account is literally says: $0.00
 
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Let's start with this here first:

Andrew McCarrick said:
I have no shot list because I have no script yet. I'm working backwards, finding what I can afford and then writing based on that.
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You're in big trouble if you're working backwards. If you take the wrong steps you're in for a lot of problems.

The new Men In Black 3 movie which was filming in NYC (might still be) decided to start filming in order to take advantage of the tax breaks before the rules changed. Problem is the script wasn't complete. Now the budget has exploded because what they've got just isn't good so a lot of stuff is ending up on the cutting room floor. You want to make a film for less than $20k but because you don't have a script, no one can really give you any MORE ideas on where you can cut or scenes that can be tailored per budget.

Take for another example, myself. I wrote 2 scenes for my feature; one to take place in a city park, the other to take place in a NYC night club. When doing the budget and scheduling we realized that these 2 scenes would eat considerable money out of our budget (and take 2 days to film). Being that the script was 124 pages, there was considerable pressure to delete pages and these two scenes were mentioned, but as the writer I felt they were needed to move the story along. Something had to give. At the end, we chose a neutral location, a car mechanic shop, that worked for both scenes AND added an extra element to the characters of the film.

All I'm saying is that moving backwards won't help you because at the end, if you have a crap story, no matter how good it looks you can't save it. Also you're doing a diservice to yourself because there's tons of ways to scale down the budget, IF you know what you're shooting.

My 0.02

Andrew McCarrick said:
Could you point me to were to look for lenses, because I can't find a single place cheaper then renting them... And it comes out to about $2250 to rent a full set of primes and 2 zooms for a month.

Canon 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM L Series Zoom - $300
Canon 24mm f1.4 II USM L Series Prime - $450
Canon 18-135mm f3.5-5.6 EFS - $200

Zeiss Canon EF Mount Set from LensRentals.com - $1268
21mm f/2.8
35mm f/2
50mm f/2 Makro
85mm f/1.4
100mm f/2 Makro
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I purchased all of my lenses second hand on ebay. If you are near pawn shops, check those out as well. Old glass is solid and phenomonal. Another thing I like is the ability to dial in arpature sizes on the lens (not a fan of the tooth pic trick on old FD lenses but the FD to eos adapter without the extra bit of glass will be a big help as these too are great lenses. Similarly if you do get the one with the extra bit of glass, try to get really fast primes as you loose a couple of stops of light. FD lenses are solid, excellent build quality and cheap so I'd never discount using these as an option)

This is what I have in my arsenal. For my feature, my DP used even older Russian lenses which are really expensive as the primary lenses but he's a pro and has been DP'ing for over 15 years. He called my kit a very solid start and my 7D was the b-cam for the film.

Sigma 14mm 3.5 $275 (not fisheye)
Pentax 28mm 2.8 $45
Pentax 50mm 1.4 $60
Nikon 85mm 1.8 $120
Pentax 135mm 2.5 $100

Canon 28mm-135mm kit lens (Canon 7D, never used for filming)

At the end of it, DO YOU REALLY NEED A 21mm, a 24mm, a 35mm, a then 2 zooms that stretch across the whole range? When just moving the camera a few feet forward or back will accomplish the same thing? I'd just go with the 24mm and call it a day. And if you'll be doing a lot of scenary/outdoor stuff I'd go with the 21mm instead. I'd try to put the cost of those two zooms into some lighting. At least for an expendables budget (I didnt' see one and you'll need one. black wrap and gaff tape are your friend)

You don't need all of those lenses. And if you're going with a 2 camera set up, you don't need multiples of the same lens.

Andrew McCarrick said:
And just as a side note my bank account is literally says: $0.00
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Dude, I owe $30k in credit card bills and have to come up with another $16k for post production (due by September 1st), so you really are preaching to the chior.
 
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Also how far in Jersey are you? Adorama has rental rates as well and they're faily cheap.

You might just need to rent a lens for only like a couple of days? Another thing that if you had a script/shot list, you could plan around.
 
RyanMKincaid said:
Also how far in Jersey are you? Adorama has rental rates as well and they're faily cheap.
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I'm 10 minutes from Atlantic City. NYC is 2 hours away. It's pretty much my closest rental option. Either Adorama, AbelCine, or Production Junction. I'm talking to someone at Production Junction I maybe able to get 2 AF100 packages for about $8000. Which is only $800 more than what the DSLR packages came out to.

I wish I had a credit card with a $30,000 limit. Mine limit is $750.



I need suggestions on how to get permission to film in a high school for a weekend. Ideas on how to do it cheap? I'll of course have insurance, but need suggestions on how to get the rental costs down.
 
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Andrew McCarrick said:
I'm talking to someone at Production Junction I maybe able to get 2 AF100 packages for about $8000. Which is only $800 more than what the DSLR packages came out to.
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How do you figure when you can purchase 2x 60Ds for 2k? And for about $1,500 get a nice decent lens package, all of which you can keep?

Help me to understand why, for a small production, would you want to go to the extreme high end, especially when you're trying to save money and you don't have money. I want to encourage you to go balls to the wall and make a production, but you're going about it all wrong. (IMHO) It's one thing if the money was there, then I'd be like pick a camera that you like, but the title of this thread is "Budget" and you're trying to price cut, but then you go for a more expensive camera package.

Forgive me if I'm coming off preachy or rude or even insesitive. Yes it is your money and yes it is your production. You can very well succeed at what you're trying to accomplish. Personally, I just think you're making your life much more difficult than need be.

Andrew McCarrick said:
I wish I had a credit card with a $30,000 limit. Mine limit is $750.
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That figure was spread out over 3 different cards each with a limit of $13,000. I've been paying minimum payments since last year June. I plan on actually knocking the little bastards out starting in January.

Andrew McCarrick said:
I need suggestions on how to get permission to film in a high school for a weekend. Ideas on how to do it cheap? I'll of course have insurance, but need suggestions on how to get the rental costs down.
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If you have the name of the principal, I'd start there. Usually a principal will allow it sometimes for free, depending on the content, purpose, and what exactly you're going to be doing in the filming at the school. A buddy of mine got a school in the Bronx for free. Let's say a rape scene or a drug scene occurs at the school, well the principal might turn you down just because he doesn't want that kind of violence to be associated with the school. Now let's say the scene for drugs has a end result similar to a PSA/Just say no message, he/she might let you slide as long as you do NOT show the name of the school.
 
Also, 2 camera set ups are NOT easy and you might be setting up yourself to waste even more money trying to get them. Are you a DP or do you have an experienced DP working on the project with you?
 
Better attitude instead of trying to minimize your budget significantly. I also think that a script and shot list would help determine your budget. I really don't believe you can work backward unless you already have the cash. Doing a budget breakdown for a project that hasn't even been conceptualized is a waste of time, in my opinion.

Kegan
 
RyanMKincaid said:
Wait, you were trying to raise the money? With no script? No budget? And no money of your own?
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What else am I suppose to do? I have no way of putting my own money in anyway, because I have none. So no matter what I need to get money from a third-party source to make anything at all happen.

So basically what I'm saying is, finding $5,000 would be no easier than finding $50,000.
 
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Andrew McCarrick said:
What else am I suppose to do? I have no way of putting my own money in anyway, because I have none. So no matter what I need to get money from a third-party source to make anything at all happen.

So basically what I'm saying is, finding $5,000 would be no easier than finding $50,000.
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OK but how did you expect to raise $50,000 or even $5,000 with out a 1). script & 2). budget? People have way more than that and still can't get a cent out of an investor.
 
And that's problem #2... finding investors. Been trying to find them for 10 years on other more expensive projects. No luck. And those were projects that were completely developed. Script, budget, cast, ect.
 
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