Boundary mics to record theater production

[Jonathan_P]

I just bought a couple of Crown PCC-160 boundary mics to record live stage theater performances. I've read the application guide on the Crown website.

Now for the silly question: Are these only for acoustic performances? What if the performers are using microphones (e.g. wireless headworn)? If amplification is being used, should I still use the boundary mics and mix it with a feed off the board or mics further back in the room to capture sound from the speakers?

Thanks!

-JP

 

[Captain Pierce]

I don't know specifically about theater, but I have used a boundary mic to record audio from a wedding, and it did a pretty decent job of picking up what was coming through the church's sound system as well as the couple's vows. I think mixing boundary mics with a feed from the board might be a good way to go, but again I've never actually done it so I don't know for sure... (cue the experts )

 

[Noiz2]

Board feeds are always problematic. You might pick up another couple of PZM's, like the old RadioShack ones and stick them in the house to pick up the amplified sound. Or move you mics farther off stage so they also pickup some of the amplified sound.

 

[Jonathan_P]

Thanks for the advice. Hmmm... I'm beginning to doubt if there's much value to using the boundary mics in an amplified venue. Seems like I might be able to just use a stereo pair of hypers (with or without a feed from the mixer...). I'm wondering if people typically only use the boundary mics in an acoustic setting? Or perhaps they're typically used where the boundary mics are less obtrusive than a stereo pair?

 

[Noiz2]

Thanks for the advice. Hmmm... I'm beginning to doubt if there's much value to using the boundary mics in an amplified venue. Seems like I might be able to just use a stereo pair of hypers (with or without a feed from the mixer...). I'm wondering if people typically only use the boundary mics in an acoustic setting? Or perhaps they're typically used where the boundary mics are less obtrusive than a stereo pair?

Yes to all the above. They are often used as stage mics and podium mics feeding the live sound system. They are great to slap on a wall and pick up room sound. I would not use hypers though, that's probably going to be too narrow a field.

The best way to cover a heavily amplified live show is to get direct outs from the board (not the mix) and a pair of ambiance mics in the house. But that usually takes a lot of inputs and a recorder with a lot of tracks. Also you may have to bring in a line splitter since a lot of boards don't have direct outs on all the inputs.
An interface (or three) and BoomRecorder will cover the recorder section but you still need to get the direct outs.

 

[Jonathan_P]

I would not use hypers though, that's probably going to be too narrow a field.

Cardioid then?

The best way to cover a heavily amplified live show is to get direct outs from the board (not the mix) and a pair of ambiance mics in the house. But that usually takes a lot of inputs and a recorder with a lot of tracks. Also you may have to bring in a line splitter since a lot of boards don't have direct outs on all the inputs. An interface (or three) and BoomRecorder will cover the recorder section but you still need to get the direct outs.

That makes so much sense. I've read in other discussions about the limitations and risks of using a mix out, but it didn't click with me that direct outs to something like BoomRecorder is a reasonably cheap alternative. And come to think of it, that's exactly how I've seen audio guys record shows around here...

Has anyone had experience with (or come across audio samples of) boundary mics vs small condensors by any chance? I can totally see using the boundary mics in situations where small condensors are likely to be too obtrusive...assuming the audio quality is decent.

 

[Noiz2]

Cardioid then?

Yes

Has anyone had experience with (or come across audio samples of) boundary mics vs small condensors by any chance? I can totally see using the boundary mics in situations where small condensors are likely to be too obtrusive...assuming the audio quality is decent.

Boundary mics are small condensers (really small). The small diaphragm leeds to a bit more noise but god ones are still good. The ones I have used have a hemispherical pickup pattern, basically an omni with good rear rejection, so they are considerably wider than a cardioid but have better rear rejection. Almost ideal for covering a stage from front positions, ie on posts or beams in the house. From the stage floor not as ideal. You would want to use a baffle to turn the pattern into more of a 1/4 sphere or you will get a lot of audience. And you will get a big varience in signal as the performers move from almost on top of the mic to up stage. But you can mix as many as you want together and not get any phasing so they are often used in abundance.

 

[Jonathan_P]

The small diaphragm leeds to a bit more noise but good ones are still good.

Can you recommend any particular models? Thanks again Mr. Noiz...

 

[Noiz2]

Crown, pretty much anything over $150. Under that you need to check. The Radio Shack ones that you can pick up used (don't think they are still selling them) are fairly noisy out of the box but with a few simple mods are quite usable.

Since I know someone will ask...

First mod is to cut off the 1/4" unbalanced plug and put an XLR on instead. The cable is balanced but the RS version only connects one side.
Second mod is to up the voltage. The mic out of the box is designed to use a AA battery. If you swap that with a 9V you get a hotter quieter signal with more headroom. This requires a little surgery but it's not hard.

The mod I was hot to do but never worked out the details is to set it up for phantom power. This should also not be a lot of work but it is a more intrusive mod.