Books on Directing
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glassblowerscat
Well-known member
Re: Books on Directing
What I say is: Forget the fundamentals of directing! Go for Rebel Without A Crew by Robert Rodriguez (see left) and learn how to do things the crazy way!
What I say is: Forget the fundamentals of directing! Go for Rebel Without A Crew by Robert Rodriguez (see left) and learn how to do things the crazy way!
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
Re: Books on Directing
Film Directing Shot by Shot by Katz. It goes over basic things like not crossing the line, dolly shots, panning, composition.
I liked Rodriguez's book as well. It was very inspirational, but there's not a whole lot of practical stuff in it about directing.
Film Directing Shot by Shot by Katz. It goes over basic things like not crossing the line, dolly shots, panning, composition.
I liked Rodriguez's book as well. It was very inspirational, but there's not a whole lot of practical stuff in it about directing.
glassblowerscat
Well-known member
Re: Books on Directing
I agree: Rodriguez is more inspirational than instructional.
I guess that was actually my point (and his): it's better to just do it any way you can, because paying attention to how other people make movies will make your movies just like other people's.
But I'm a learn by doing kind of person.
Ryan
I agree: Rodriguez is more inspirational than instructional.
I guess that was actually my point (and his): it's better to just do it any way you can, because paying attention to how other people make movies will make your movies just like other people's.
But I'm a learn by doing kind of person.
Ryan
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
Re: Books on Directing
I admire Rodriguez for what he did, as well as his attitude. But he did it "his way" after spending some time in film school and making lots of shorts, both on 16mm and video. Now, I've never been to film school, and I did my first short having never read a book about the technical aspects of filmmaking. Believe me, it showed. I am a "just go and do it" kind of guy myself, but it doesn't hurt to understand how things have been done before. You don't have to do them, but at least you can understand why they were done that way. A little reading would have saved me some time and disappointment.
Educating yourself is never a bad thing. You can do t on your own, which can work if it doesn't kill you, or you can try and learn from other people's experiences; which might help you get where you want to go a little faster. Knowledge rarely hampers creativity, it usually enhances it.
I admire Rodriguez for what he did, as well as his attitude. But he did it "his way" after spending some time in film school and making lots of shorts, both on 16mm and video. Now, I've never been to film school, and I did my first short having never read a book about the technical aspects of filmmaking. Believe me, it showed. I am a "just go and do it" kind of guy myself, but it doesn't hurt to understand how things have been done before. You don't have to do them, but at least you can understand why they were done that way. A little reading would have saved me some time and disappointment.
Educating yourself is never a bad thing. You can do t on your own, which can work if it doesn't kill you, or you can try and learn from other people's experiences; which might help you get where you want to go a little faster. Knowledge rarely hampers creativity, it usually enhances it.
glassblowerscat
Well-known member
Re: Books on Directing
[quote author=Jim Brennan link=board=Directing;num=1098323126;start=0#6 date=10/21/04 at 15:08:18]Educating yourself is never a bad thing. You can do t on your own, which can work if it doesn't kill you, or you can try and learn from other people's experiences; which might help you get where you want to go a little faster. Knowledge rarely hampers creativity, it usually enhances it.[/quote]
That's true. I tend to be reactionary about that just because I am exactly the kind of person who will read lots of books and do things like—oh, I don't know—hang out on forums reading what other people think, and never actually get out and make stuff. So I force myself to spend less time studying and more time doing.
Some people are the opposite way, as I think we can all agree from some of the clips we've seen around here.
Everyone has different learning techniques, hangups, and pitfalls. That just happens to be one of mine.
Ryan
[quote author=Jim Brennan link=board=Directing;num=1098323126;start=0#6 date=10/21/04 at 15:08:18]Educating yourself is never a bad thing. You can do t on your own, which can work if it doesn't kill you, or you can try and learn from other people's experiences; which might help you get where you want to go a little faster. Knowledge rarely hampers creativity, it usually enhances it.[/quote]
That's true. I tend to be reactionary about that just because I am exactly the kind of person who will read lots of books and do things like—oh, I don't know—hang out on forums reading what other people think, and never actually get out and make stuff. So I force myself to spend less time studying and more time doing.
Some people are the opposite way, as I think we can all agree from some of the clips we've seen around here.
Everyone has different learning techniques, hangups, and pitfalls. That just happens to be one of mine.Ryan
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Re: Books on Directing
This will sound weird and I have said this before. I have tried this technique quite a few times and it works.
Find a movie you love and in particular a scene. Now shoot it. Shot for shot. Now put it into your NLE and go to work. Recreate this scene that so inspires you.
Look at it like this. When I was younger I jammed in a band. But getting to that band level required alot of time learning chords and scales from songs I loved and was inspired by. I found that by learning these songs (self taught through Guitar tab) that one day I knew all of these damn things. I could play guitar. Not other songs but make up my own using what I have learned.
The point Im making is. The books are great (particulary what someone mentioned above in terms of crossing the line and blah blah). But the key is to drop the book and get out and start making films. Start shooting. Start composing. Give it a try. Recreate a scene (something realistic NOT PEARL FREAKIN HARBOR ATTACK SEQUENCE) and see what you learn.
This will sound weird and I have said this before. I have tried this technique quite a few times and it works.
Find a movie you love and in particular a scene. Now shoot it. Shot for shot. Now put it into your NLE and go to work. Recreate this scene that so inspires you.
Look at it like this. When I was younger I jammed in a band. But getting to that band level required alot of time learning chords and scales from songs I loved and was inspired by. I found that by learning these songs (self taught through Guitar tab) that one day I knew all of these damn things. I could play guitar. Not other songs but make up my own using what I have learned.
The point Im making is. The books are great (particulary what someone mentioned above in terms of crossing the line and blah blah). But the key is to drop the book and get out and start making films. Start shooting. Start composing. Give it a try. Recreate a scene (something realistic NOT PEARL FREAKIN HARBOR ATTACK SEQUENCE) and see what you learn.
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
Re: Books on Directing
I couldn't agree more. There's nothing worse than the paralysis of analysis. When in doubt, shoot it. That's the great thing about DV. Your only investment is time and a few bucks worth of tape. There certainly comes a time when you have to put what you know (or think you might know) into practice.
I like the musician analogy. I've been playing for 25 years. I tried learning other people's stuff, and although I had some success, what it really made me do was go out and write my own music. I based what I wrote at first on the foundation of what I had mimiced (sp?), and it grew from there. I do the same thing when I shoot.
I couldn't agree more. There's nothing worse than the paralysis of analysis. When in doubt, shoot it. That's the great thing about DV. Your only investment is time and a few bucks worth of tape. There certainly comes a time when you have to put what you know (or think you might know) into practice.
I like the musician analogy. I've been playing for 25 years. I tried learning other people's stuff, and although I had some success, what it really made me do was go out and write my own music. I based what I wrote at first on the foundation of what I had mimiced (sp?), and it grew from there. I do the same thing when I shoot.
glassblowerscat
Well-known member
Re: Books on Directing
Off-topic, but I have to know:
John, is your signature quote from the upcoming movie, Saw?
Off-topic, but I have to know:
John, is your signature quote from the upcoming movie, Saw?
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
Re: Books on Directing
I believe that's from the Road Warrior, no?
I believe that's from the Road Warrior, no?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Books on Directing
Road Warrior quote.
Road Warrior quote.
moe_snodgrass
Well-known member
Re: Books on Directing
[quote author=John Hudson link=board=Directing;num=1098323126;start=0#9 date=10/21/04 at 21:39:31]
Find a movie you love and in particular a scene. Now shoot it. Shot for shot. Now put it into your NLE and go to work. Recreate this scene that so inspires you.
[/quote]
I agree with John. The DVD player is the new film school. Watch all the sequences you love until you can shoot em, direct the actors, do the make up, wardrobe -- all of it in your sleep.
But I say take it one step further. Go a head and transplant the sequences you love into your own film. Plagarist? Maybe. But yours is a different film with a different script and different dialogue and different actors. And the blocking will end up being different. And you'll have to use a different lens and filters, etc. etc. etc. It will be almost completely unique.
People noticed that DePalma copied Hitchcock right out of the book but nobody really cared. DePalma's and Truffaut's riping-off of Hitchcock was critisized as admiration (which it was) as much as "copying" (which it was). Quentin ripped off for "Reservoir Dogs" but there's no question that he made it his own with the script and casting and his own unique way of working.
Who was the first to use a match cut on two different pairs of legs walking? No one knows. Who cares? It's now part of the vernacular. Who was the first to use a traveling automobile as a transitional wipe instead of a lab-created wipe? In the end it will end up your own because your film is your own. There's nothing (or little) new under the sun.
[quote author=John Hudson link=board=Directing;num=1098323126;start=0#9 date=10/21/04 at 21:39:31]
Find a movie you love and in particular a scene. Now shoot it. Shot for shot. Now put it into your NLE and go to work. Recreate this scene that so inspires you.
[/quote]
I agree with John. The DVD player is the new film school. Watch all the sequences you love until you can shoot em, direct the actors, do the make up, wardrobe -- all of it in your sleep.
But I say take it one step further. Go a head and transplant the sequences you love into your own film. Plagarist? Maybe. But yours is a different film with a different script and different dialogue and different actors. And the blocking will end up being different. And you'll have to use a different lens and filters, etc. etc. etc. It will be almost completely unique.
People noticed that DePalma copied Hitchcock right out of the book but nobody really cared. DePalma's and Truffaut's riping-off of Hitchcock was critisized as admiration (which it was) as much as "copying" (which it was). Quentin ripped off for "Reservoir Dogs" but there's no question that he made it his own with the script and casting and his own unique way of working.
Who was the first to use a match cut on two different pairs of legs walking? No one knows. Who cares? It's now part of the vernacular. Who was the first to use a traveling automobile as a transitional wipe instead of a lab-created wipe? In the end it will end up your own because your film is your own. There's nothing (or little) new under the sun.
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
Re: Books on Directing
It's not plagiarism, it's homage. Ask Tarantino.
It's not plagiarism, it's homage. Ask Tarantino.
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
Re: Books on Directing
Well, no. Plagiarism is an illegal and unethical copying of what someone else has done, in an effort to pass it off as your own. Homage is a creative reference to your admiration for someone else's work. If doing something someone else has done was plagiarism, the first time we did an over the shoulder or two shot, we'd be guilty of it.
Well, no. Plagiarism is an illegal and unethical copying of what someone else has done, in an effort to pass it off as your own. Homage is a creative reference to your admiration for someone else's work. If doing something someone else has done was plagiarism, the first time we did an over the shoulder or two shot, we'd be guilty of it.
J_Barnes
Veteran
Re: Books on Directing
There's a big difference between copying an over the shoulder shot and copping an entire sequence. I don't care what the legal implications are for copying creative work either legally or illegally...it's still copying. Is it legal? Mostly. Is it ethical? That depends on your ethics.
For a lot of people, it is perfectly ethical to rip an entire sequence/character/plot/scene or other creative touch...for a lot of people it isn’t. It really depends on how you view your particular instance of thievery.
Was Warhol paying tribute to the Campbell’s Soup can when he used it in his painting? Yes. Would Campbell’s also be ethically permitted to be pissed at such an unauthorized usage? I think yes as well.
That’s why I say homage is just plagiarism in a fancy hat. It’s directly or indirectly taking from another artistic work, usually without credit or public acknowledgement. But since we include it within the body of another artistic work, we afford it the title of homage rather then plagiarism. We say that we’re paying tribute to another artistic work by copping part of it and using it as our own.
Following that logic, every hip hop producer should be unlimited in their right to sample creative works…but they aren’t. Uncredited, unauthorized, uncompensated sampling is not homage, it’s theft. (and yes I understand that an homage in a film would not use the actual footage, but producers wouldn’t get off by having a band re-record the samples in question either)
It’s an arbitrary difference between the two, but one is almost always permitted where the other is almost never permitted. That’s why I say homage is just plagiarism in a fancy hat. (my opinion, not my fact)
There's a big difference between copying an over the shoulder shot and copping an entire sequence. I don't care what the legal implications are for copying creative work either legally or illegally...it's still copying. Is it legal? Mostly. Is it ethical? That depends on your ethics.
For a lot of people, it is perfectly ethical to rip an entire sequence/character/plot/scene or other creative touch...for a lot of people it isn’t. It really depends on how you view your particular instance of thievery.
Was Warhol paying tribute to the Campbell’s Soup can when he used it in his painting? Yes. Would Campbell’s also be ethically permitted to be pissed at such an unauthorized usage? I think yes as well.
That’s why I say homage is just plagiarism in a fancy hat. It’s directly or indirectly taking from another artistic work, usually without credit or public acknowledgement. But since we include it within the body of another artistic work, we afford it the title of homage rather then plagiarism. We say that we’re paying tribute to another artistic work by copping part of it and using it as our own.
Following that logic, every hip hop producer should be unlimited in their right to sample creative works…but they aren’t. Uncredited, unauthorized, uncompensated sampling is not homage, it’s theft. (and yes I understand that an homage in a film would not use the actual footage, but producers wouldn’t get off by having a band re-record the samples in question either)
It’s an arbitrary difference between the two, but one is almost always permitted where the other is almost never permitted. That’s why I say homage is just plagiarism in a fancy hat. (my opinion, not my fact)