Bolex H8??

S

SE7

Well-known member
Hola,

Does the H8 only shoot 8mm or does it also shoot Super8 as well?

Thanks.
 
Oh okay. Yea I might get a Super8 or 8mm rather than a 16.

The stocks for 16 are beginning to seem a little out of budget for me... even for short films, so I'm looking around at Super8 or 8mm...

So 8mm would look closer to 16mm than Super8 right? Since the film is 16mm, just spliced into 2.

I think I might go with an 8mm camera, but I've heard it's harder to find stocks and get them processed/telecine... so I'm debating whether it's gonna be Super8 or standard.

If you have any advice, I'd really appreciate it... Thanks

ALSO, What is the difference between a Reflex and a Delux or a Standard?

Thanks alot!

Colin
 
Alright.

1 - The image area of a super8 frame is actually larger than the regular8 frame. The problem is that a lot of consumer super8 cameras have registration problems so you end up getting a shaky image with brightness constantly changing. That is also true for consumer 8mm cameras, but H-8s, which are the cadillacs of 8mm film, are cheaper to buy than high-end Super8 cameras. It's debatable which looks closer to 16mm. I find the footage shot on H-8 looking closer to 16mm, and the excellent engineering is probably to thank.

2 - Check out all the regular8 labs (there really aren't that many; refer to http://standard8.org/ ) and budget out all your options (super8 vs. regular8 vs. 16). Consider things like wait time (from getting film to getting it processed to scanning/telecine), shipping costs, processing and telecine costs. Also consider the fact that there are no negative stocks available in regular8. Generally, if you live in the right city, you can get 16mm and super8 stock within a few days if you have a Kodak warehouse in the area. Regular 8mm film you will probably have to get shipped to you unless you live in Cal.

3 - The major difference among the H-8 models is in the viewfinder. Both on the H8 Standard and Deluxe the viewfinder is not reflex, which means that you have two separate devices for focusing and composing the frame. This is a tad hard to grasp unless you actually play with a Bolex, so let me explain.

A reflex viewfinder basically means that what you see in the finder is exactly what's recorded on film - you are essentially looking through the lens of the camera and can adjust focusing "on the fly". With the pre-reflex H-8s the viewfinder however, as you can see on the pictures, is a separate device. You also have a separate 'viewfinder' for focusing. When you want to shoot, you rotate the lens tourette to align the lens you want to use with the focusing viewfinder. At this point the image from the lens is projected onto a small ground glass and magnified through the focuser, which means that you are looking through the lens. The lens itself, however, is not aligned with the film gate, so if you were to start shooting now, you would not be using the correct lens. Once you're done focusing, you rotate the tourette back so that the lens you just focused is aligned with the film gate. Then, you look into the actual viewfinder and start shooting.

It sounds lengthy, but is quite easy to get used to. The only drawback of this setup is not being able to easily adjust focus on the fly. It also means that when you're shooting up close and do not adjust for it, there might be a slight horizontal parallax error (vertical parallax is eliminated as the viewfinder is on the same level as the film gate). However, the 8mm gauge is so small that, unless you are shooting under very low light conditions, your depth of field will be quite high anyway, which means that you probably don't have to worry about precise focusing to begin with.

4 - I have a Bolex H8 Deluxe which I think I'd like to sell :). I got it off eBay for $180 with just about anything you can imagine: the unit, the handcrank, the handle, the lens hood, a few lenses (standard and wide angle), original manual, original accessories catalogue (teardrop) and some other stuff. I also bought two Yashinon lenses for it, a standard and a telephoto, both opening up to f1.4. I have a junk roll of film to practice loading on, plus a new, I believe, non-expired roll of Ektachrome 100D in the fridge. I've shot some black and white footage on it, but haven't got it processed yet. I'm selling it because I bought a Krasnogorsk-3 camera which I have a Ton of lenses for, plus it's Russian, so it's like saving a komrad.

Hope that helped, and let me know if you're interested or have any other questions.

...

F**k video!

:cheesy:
 
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Here is a picture I took on Ilford Pan-F ISO50 film:

531269970_ab9dce0b5a_b.jpg
 
Wow!! You are a LIFESAVER! Seriously, Thank you thank you thank you!!! That helped SOO Much!!

I recently won a bid on a K-3 on ebay, but then canceled it when I looked at the prices of film stock/processing/telecine (AHHH!!!)

Isn't it a few hundred dollars to shoot a 10 minute film on 16mm? (Wayyy too much for me)

Okay, thanks soooo much man! I've learned a lot, and I will keep researching and find what's right for me.

Also, I've heard you can process Super8 film at Wal-Mart, but not 8mm... the convience of doing that would be great... but I really want a H8!

Are there any Super8 cameras you would suggest? I think the Beaulieu 4008 is wonderful that the frame rate goes up to 70fps!! SLOW-MO!!! :)

Anyways, thanks again, you have been loads of help!

All the best,
Colin
 
16mm.. Hmm.. The stock is pricier, but around here I can get processing for .14 a foot, essentially making it less than the cost of processing 8mm and without needing to ship it off anywhere. Telecine is comparable to 8mm as well, so the only price difference is the stock. However, if you shop around on CraigsList, eBay, and ask around, you should be able to get shortends and expired stock for cheap. The Tape Superstore is selling shortends at .19 a foot which makes it 19 bucks per 100ft, not a huge lot more expensive than 8mm (you can find 8mm for around $14 per 25ft). The K-3 cost me $200 with all the cool accessories and the decent zoom lens, so basically I can move up to 16mm at a fairly small price.

As to super8 cameras, there are so many out there it's ridiculous. The good ones are Beaulieus, plus things like Canon 1014 and Nizo's. I don't remember all of them, but basically if it does more than 24fps and has a good lens, you should be set. A super8 geek from around here should be able to chime in and suggest a good axe.

Oh, one more thing - the H8 is basically a modified H16, which means it can take in 100ft reels of 8mm film giving you a runtime of close to 11 mins, just like with 400' mags for 16mm or 1000' for 35. Something to consider as well.

P.S. If assuming the regular 10:1 shooting ratio, it's far more than a few hundred dollars to shoot a 10 minute 16mm film :). Make sure to get a dayjob or marry someone rich.
 
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Wow... that's a good deal for the processing... where do you live? I don't imagine they have a 16mm processing place in Utah? :) lol.. probably NOT ... :(

Oh... by the way, I recently bid on a K-3 but unfortunately lost by $10 within the last 3 seconds :( AHHH!!! but it was a K-3 in mint cond. with the lens, extras, etc... BUT.. it also included 600 Feet of Kodak Vision2 250T, 100, and 500 film...

All of this for $160 with $40 shipping... I WAS SOOO MAD I LOST!!! My final bid was $147.99 or something and the dudes was like $159... GRRR!!

That would've been a great deal. Oh well...

Anyways thanks for the help and info.. I might look around some more.

Cheers :dankk2:

Colin
 
Yeah, you generally want to bid around $200 or so on K-3. If it's a good deal, don't be cheap :).

And I'm in Vancouver, Canada.
 
Haha... you know what's funny? I just bought another K-3 online... this time I won't cancel it.. haha.

You got me insterested in it again because I found a great 16mm film website that sells recans for cheap... about the same as Super8 film stock.

So thanks for all the info...

Ohh... does the K-3 have a reflex viewfinder? Or is it a separate unit? (Do I have to have a light meter, or can I expose from just looking from the viewfinder?)

Thanks man...

Cheers,
Colin
 
Hah. Congratulations. Now find a lab.

As to the K-3, yes, it is a reflex viewfinder. It doesn't however mean that it allows you to get by without a light meter. Being able to look through the lens and see the image exactly like it will show up on film has little to do with exposing correctly. It is possible to train your eye meter, but it is far easier, if not necessary, to just get a light meter. With the prices of stocks and processing, you don't want to shoot your film and find out you are undrexposed by 3 stops and there is nothing that can be done.

There is a meter built into the camera, but it is known to be inaccurate at times, so I would suggest picking up a small light meter off eBay (or a fancier one if you have money to spend). Old Sekonic's from the 70s and 80s can be had for cheap. Heck, I got a great one with a still and movie scales for free at a photo convention. The best meter to get would be the one that can do incident readings; one of those meters that have a roud semi-sphere on top. You basically stick that meter in front of your subject, and it will give you the correct exposure settings.

What's the stock website by the way? The Tape Superstore?
 
A piece of advice - if you're fairly new to film, pick up a still film camera (make sure to save up the whopping $0.99 or less they start at on garage sales), some slide stock, and books on photography. The principals behind the equipment and making proper exposures are exactly the same with the only exception of movie cameras having a built-in mechanism that advances the film 24 frames per second.

Slide film stocks are quite unforgiving in terms of exposure as there is less lattitude. In other words, if you screw up, there is very little room to fix mistakes - an under or overexposed shots will most likely not be recoverable. It will quickly teach you how to make correct exposures. Negative stocks, of course, offer a bit more leeway, but it's easier to transition from slides to negatives than the other way around. It's fun too.
 
Thanks for the info and tips... how exactly do you use an old Sekonic light meter? If it doesn't have the sphere, it's not automatic? So how exactly would you use it to light your scene correctly?

I definitely don't want to spend all that money on film/processing to realize the film was underexposed... so thanks for that tip... I'll definitely get a cheap light meter.

Also, do you know if they make matte boxes for the Krasnogorsk?

Thanks a TON!

~Colin
 
They make matte boxes alright. Why on earth would you need one though? Just use the plastic lens hood that comes with the K-3.

As to metering - do get some photography books :). To sum up what should be a good chapter in one of those books, a non-incident, ie. reflective meter, works by you pointing it at the subject and reading the light reflected off the subject. There is more room for error here than when using incident meters since you are reading the reflected light and not the light falling on the subject, but a workaround is to get a 18% grey card from a photo store and have your subject hold it so you can take a reading. Most meters are calibrated to 18% grey, and as another reference, most white skin is one stop brighter than the 18% grey. Such a reading will be identical to that of an incident meter.
 
Wonderful. I'm not sure if mine will come with a lens hood... can you name any matte boxes off just in case? Thanks man.

And thanks for the help about the light meters... Do youknow of any good photography books that will help me with more of this?

And the loading of the film is a LITTLE (psssh... understatement) confusing. It's just the fact that this is my first time working with film, so I have no clue when it comes to loading the beast.

Also, in the manual of the K-3 I was reading online it says after you load the film, "run the film for a few seconds" so the film can roll through properly. Is this recording (filming) when you "run" the film?

And the trigger is for filming right? (lol... just making sure)

So after you load the film and you want to "run it through" for a few seconds, you press the trigger?

By the way... any regular old 35mm still film camera will use slide film right? EX: A Pentax? Or do you have to buy a camera made for slide film? (I'm new to any sort of film... as you can see I come from a digital background.)

Thanks SO MUCH man!

Colin
 
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1 - the lens hood is one of the standard K-3 accessories, so if you're getting the complete original kit. I am not aware of very many matte boxes for K-3's, I think you might have to go the DIY way. The zoom that comes with the camera is pretty big so in the worst case scenario you can always make a cone out of thin cardboard, wrap it around, and tape to the lens with gaffer or masking tape

2 - Just about any photography book should do. For lighting, I really like "Light: Science and Magic" written for photography courses in UK. Very well-written, has good exercises, and explains the zone system which is of great help. There is also a good cinematography book I'm reading right now which explains meters and the zone system, but I feel that it will probably be harder to understand what they talk about without any previous knowledge.

3 - Loading the film seems convoluted when you read the manual, but is quite easy in practice. You basically trim the end making sure you make the cut where the sprocket hole(s) is, wind the camera up, set it to 8fps, and feed through. If everything is okay, it will feed itself through properly without you needing to do anything. Oftentimes it doesn't, but it's quite easy to fix - you just pull two pins of the mechanism up and sit the film in properly. Then run it for a little bit to make sure it runs okay and that the gate doesn't move around like it will if the pulldown claw isn't engaging properly. If none of this is making much sense, you'll figure it out as soon as you get the cam. It's not hard at all. A lot of people complain cause they've never loaded up film cameras. It's not much harder than loading up a reel-to-reel tape machine

4 - Yes, any 35mm camera will do. 35mm film is the most widely available camera film which is still sold at department stores and such. It can also be processed almost anywhere. You can get black and white, negative, and positive slide stocks. Negative is positive is your choice, but slides usually offer greater saturation and don't require prints whereas negatives you either have to scan or get prints done from.

5 - As to the camera choice, it doesn't really matter. I happened to have a Russian Zenit and a Pentax Spotmatic SLRs, both of which accept the same M42 lenses that the K-3 does. You can do the same and get some Pentax cameras. Just make sure they have a thread and not a bayonet mount. Something like SP500 should do.
 
Thanks again... you have outdone yourself!

What about this matte box? (Do you know what it is?) This is a K-3 by the way.

http://www.kitashton.com/mo8.htm
and
http://www.kitashton.com/mo9.htm
and
http://www.kitashton.com/mo10.htm

(Does anyone know what tripod is in pic10?)

So there's gotta be a matte box for a Krasnogorsk out there... I just have to figure out which one it was. Any ideas?

Do you know what size in mm the lens is? I could just try to find a matte box that connects to that size. (For EX: XL2 and DVX = 72mm lens)

Thanks...
 
Also, what are some good, cheap tripods (used is okay) that will work well with the Krasnogorsk? I want something that is really cheap but can still work well.

Is there a special plate you have to buy to put it on a tripod, or does it screw in regularly?

Thanks
 
I've seen that mattebox and I don't know what it is. I have seen other ones out there, but I have not at all researched the topic as it's the last thing I'm worried about at the moment for my own projects. The zoom lens filter thread on the K-3 is 77mm I believe, and usually 49mm on screwmount Pentax lenses.

As to the tripods, there are so many out there. I am actually on the lookout for a good one myself. If you don't find what you like just buy the best one in a local Best Buy, shoot your film, and then return it :).
 
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